EDF rejects

[M. A. Shah]

The title is or was 'Virtue'
Apparently it was too graphic for them.
Well i couldn't have reduced the imagery because that is life's reality and the incidences i quoted were real.
I have the right to gripe, dont I!!!

Man is in some ways just like the moth, drawn towards the seductive flame of life, even though it burns, pains him.

[Jordan Lapp]

Sorry about that.

Life >is< graphic, however, we don't need to have graphic thrust onto us when we're eating lunch ;). A portion of our market includes professionals that may be reading us at lunch, and if they'll stop if we get a reputation for putting them off their meals.

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
Every Day Fiction (http://www.everydayfiction.com)

[RHFay]

Just my two-pence worth: it's an example of what I've been talking about a lot lately - different strokes for different folks.


I had a speculative poem rejected recently by a publication after it made it into that publication's short list for consideration . What I was told by the editor was that the poem was really good, but it just didn't fit in with the rest of the works being chosen for the nextcouple of issues.


What's a contributor to do in this situation? Send the piece on to the next market. Try and find the right fit, the right market for that particular work.






"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"

Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
http://azurelionproductions.com

[Lyn]

I think everyone has a right to gripe. It's just a matter of form - and the impact that one's public discourse has on their own reputation. If we care about those things, then we'll self-monitor or change our particular style of posting. For example, a few months back someone mentioned that a frequent poster on these boards was 'argumentative' (or at least came across that way) and ever since then, I've noticed that this particular person hasn't been as 'vocally' confrontational. So go ahead and gripe, but, imo, if the issue is one of disagreement with the editor (and we know the editor happens to frequent these boards) then it might be better form to email that person directly. But, to each his/her own. /emoticons/smile.gif

Lyn from ResAliens (http://residentialaliens.blogspot.com)

[Gbondoni]

Lyn, I think in this case it might be a question of a new writer learning what is acceptable and what is not.

M.A., regardless of what real life may or may not be like, it is important, ALWAYS, to respect the needs of the market you are submitting to. The editor knows his market best, and this rejection doesn't seem to call into question the quality of your work. Just nod and send it to a more suitable market, there are plenty out there that welcome the graphic qualities of life. This shouldn't be something to gripe about, just a fact of the writing life - something most professional (and serious aspiring) writers accept and work with: to a certain extent the writing must be tailored to the market.

And at least they told you why it was being rejected. you now know a little bit more about what EDF wants. Write another piece and send it to them - this time you might get closer to the mark. And if they reject it again, at least Camille and Jordan are extremely communicative on why they aren't buying a piece, which allows you to improve it before sending it elsewhere. This takes time and effort, and many editors don't do it.

Visitmy livejournal! http://bondo-ba.livejournal.com/

[Jordan Lapp]

Thanks for the compliments Gustavo!

Absolutely everyone has a right to gripe, and I thought M. A. Shah's gripe was appropriate. It wasn't personal or spiteful, it was just frustrated, and I sympathize because we had asked for a rewrite and still ended up rejecting it, which I hate to do because it stings twice as much.

As for your comment, Lyn, I do try and moderate myself a little more. I'm still 'opinionated' (as you can tell if you read the thread where Richard and I talked about Tolkienesque fantasy), but I try to be very careful not to offend anyone while I make my points.

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
Every Day Fiction (http://www.everydayfiction.com)

[Swashbuckler]

M.A.: If you keep sending out stories, you will keep getting rejections. Not every story fits with every venue, and not every editor will share your tastes and artistic vision. Just keep submitting stories until you do find an editor who sees things your way.

Even then, you'll get rejections along with sales. Even editors who generally like your stuff, and buy some of it, won't buy everything you send them. Odds are, if your fiction is pushing boundaries, etc., it might take some time to find an editor who likes where you're going.

Don't get mad, and don't quit trying. And don't burn bridges! Jordan and Camille might not hold your gripe against you (Jordan likes to argue, but he's an open-minded kind of guy. As for Camille, she seems even-tempered, too). But some editors might well have seen your gripe and decided to just automatically reject anything else you send them.

Anyway, keep writing and keep submitting.

Steve Goble

Visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom, (http://stevegoble.com/blog/) for news on published fiction and upcoming stories.

[Lyn]

Hey, Jordan, I didn't say that person was you! lol.
I know I'm hard to work with. Just ask CW. /emoticons/smile.gif

Lyn from ResAliens (http://residentialaliens.blogspot.com)

[Christopher_Heath]

I'm not trying to bash you M.A. but seems like this isa good learning experience--when asked for a rewrite, adhere to the letter what the editors want. I'm not privileged to all aspects involved, but sounds like you must have been asked for the rewrite because it was too graphic, then it was rejected for being too graphic... I lost a sale to Flashing Swords under Howard Jones because I was too lazy to figure out how to shorten a story...stupid! I think I've mentioned it before but that's a good anecdote for aspiring writers...do what the editor asks! You could have easily beenin the brag column instead ofthe gripe. Not trying to be discouraging or preachy; at any rate you know you have a good tale that another market might accept, so congrats on that!

Christopher M. Heath

"Azieran: Kaiburr the Rotund" in Silly Fantasy Anthology by CyberAliens
"Azieran: Claimed by Birthright" in Return of the Sword by Flashing Swords Press
"Azieran: Oathbreaker's Promise" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: The Hollow Kings" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: Adairos" in Tower of Light Fantasy
"Azieran: Savior in a Flask" in Magic and Mechanica by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Travelers Four" in Black Dragon, White Dragon by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Breaking of Hell's Bones" in Black Sails by 1018 Press
"Azieran: Distilling the Essence" in Sails and Sorcery by Fantasist Enterprises
"Azieran: Crestfallen in Mal'kyrrik" serialized novella in Forgotten Worlds


+ others

[Jordan Lapp]

No, no, Lyn, your comment was fair enough. If it wasn't directed at me it could have been. I think I've been a little more moderate lately haven't I?

Steve's comment was a good one too. It's possible that some touchy editor might have taken your comment out of context, Shah. When I vent, I try to do it to writing group members offline, and if I've got to go online, I'm very careful to leave out names. Remember Google Alerts are easy to set up, and send you an e-mail whenever it finds someone using your name. I've gone to TONS of blogs where the author has posted about me or EDF and made a comment and it always blows them away that i've found them. Because of Google Alerts, you should never say something online you wouldn't say straight to someone's face.*

*Of course, you could just misspell their name to get around Google Alerts, a trick I learned from Nathan's sig.

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
Every Day Fiction (http://www.everydayfiction.com)

[Lyn]

Thirdy Lapp (lol, see what google alert finds now!) said: '...you should never say something online you wouldn't say straight to someone's face.' This is a tremendously helpful rule, or guideline. Almost common sense (which we've all heard isn't too common). And, Jordan, you have moderated nicely. lol. But again, I'm with Christopher, it isn't my place to make that call. We're all different personalities, etc. Okay, lunch is over. Back to the work at hand. /emoticons/smile.gif

Lyn from ResAliens (http://residentialaliens.blogspot.com)

[RHFay]

Jordan Lapp said...

As for your comment, Lyn, I do try and moderate myself a little more. I'm still "opinionated" (as you can tell if you read the thread where Richard and I talked about Tolkienesque fantasy), but I try to be very careful not to offend anyone while I make my points.


Ya ain't the only opinionated one on these here boards! /emoticons/smilewinkgrin.gif And there are times I'm too opinionated for my own good.

As for rejections - don't rejections usually outnumber acceptances anyway? You definitely have to expect a number of rejections for a variety of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with the apparent quality of the work in question.

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"

Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
http://azurelionproductions.com

[erazmus]

M.A.,
I'll tell it to you straight, the editor isn't always right, but he is.
Jordan and camille are good joes, and fine editors, but they are only right about what goes into their magazine. Sometimes a peice of excelent writing just isn't going to fit. Not thier fault, not the writers. EDF isn't all things to all people, somethings should not go.
So they were right to reject you, but that doesn't comment on you or the writing. They asked for changes that couldn't really be made by you to it and it be what you wanted it too. They were right to try, because they don't know what you can and can't do, or how you see a given piece, and they were right to reject it, because it doesn't fit what they see as thier pub.
But that doesn't make you wrong for not having changed it more, or the piece wrong for being what it is. The process has allowed you to look at that piece with a new perspective, thiers, and you now understand that bit of your own work better.
It is frustrating and its normal to go ahead an gripe. Now, go send it somewhere else until it finds a home.

Mike

Michael D. Turner
'Psyched Up' in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
'Dutchman Rescue'in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm (http://www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm)

'An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern' in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php (http://www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php)
'Stains' in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html (http://www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html)
'Morning Coffee' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/)
'The Jewel Below' in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm (http://flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm)
'Happy Landings' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/)
'Teller of Tales' in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/)

[nathan]

Writing is rejection. Learn to be a masochist because too many chowder heads (hi Jordan!) will fail to recognize your genius. It then becomes a matter of do you want your artistic integrity or do you want to move a piece.

If you've got talent (and if he at least bothered asking for a rewrite you might just--I say not having read you) then you've got talent not just along the greased track of your own writing predjudices and preferences--but with any focus, genre, track, theme, and even style presented to you.

Still--don't get me wrong. I've let me some good bitchings go on this site so good on ya.

VIEW IMAGE (http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/bloodstone2.jpg)
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994) interview with Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire) magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[nathan]

Christopher_Heath said...
I lost a sale to Flashing Swords under Howard Jones because I was too lazy to figure out how to shorten a story...stupid! I think I've mentioned it before but that's a good anecdote for aspiring writers...do what the editor asks! Ouch. Same thing happened to me with him at the BG. He told me exactly what worked (beginning &amp; end) and what didn't (the middle) for him and offered to let me rewrite it--kind man that he is given their slush.

I just couldn't do it. I might have been, as you say, just to lazy to deconstruct the damn thing. I still don't know what I think, lol.




VIEW IMAGE (http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/bloodstone2.jpg)
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994) interview with Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire) magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[erazmus]

Nathan,
I think you should have e-mailed me, I'd have ghosted the changes, you rewrite my ghost for style and you'd have had a B-G sale. The wife and I did this last year for the teaser page for a Best selling author who needed to cut five hundred words in a hurry, its perfectly ethical. I mean really, buddy.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
'Psyched Up' in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
'Dutchman Rescue'in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm (http://www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm)

'An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern' in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php (http://www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php)
'Stains' in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html (http://www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html)
'Morning Coffee' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/)
'The Jewel Below' in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm (http://flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm)
'Happy Landings' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/)
'Teller of Tales' in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/)

[nathan]

Well it's sitting with a nice man at Spacesuits &amp; Six Guns right now, lol. I also rewrote the piece as a martial arts occult thriller and moved it to Visionary Comics where it is 'in utero'.


Chutzpah of you is crazy. I tried to bounce you some work as I recall. Now you want to slash my beloved baby? Now...Can you give me 100 pages of gunfights on a Pakistani mountain with Bolan caught between elite Chinese border guards and Taliban fighters while an industrialclone of certain bio weapons sits admist the detrius of a Russian plane crash? /emoticons/lol.gif


On the other hand... your help's about what it would havetook on that short story for Howard as I was so emtionally invested in the story as it was that I couldn't (as in "was paralyzed") make the changes. This goes against my credo big time--but I felt helpless.


I'll file this little job skill of your's into my rainy day chest and Use As Directed when time comes /emoticons/smile.gif


VIEW IMAGE (http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/bloodstone2.jpg)
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994) interview with Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire) magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[nathan]

Not for nuttin but didn't some cat named MA Shan start this thread?

VIEW IMAGE (http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/bloodstone2.jpg)
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994) interview with Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire) magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[erazmus]

Nathan,
right now I can't seem to write much of my own anyways. Pakistani mountain gunfights? I've been meaning to write a scene with a seven year old playing with posable action figues in his backyard, and I can't get that to work right now. Moving has seriously stressed by work habits and I need to rededicate.

Mike

Michael D. Turner
'Psyched Up' in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
'Dutchman Rescue'in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm (http://www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm)

'An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern' in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php (http://www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php)
'Stains' in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html (http://www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html)
'Morning Coffee' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/)
'The Jewel Below' in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm (http://flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm)
'Happy Landings' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/)
'Teller of Tales' in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/)

[M. A. Shah]

I DID NOT mean to offend the editors of EDF, as some have wrongly assumed. Ok so I am not the most diplomatic person on the block. I was just reporting my second rejection.
Contrary to what Lyn suggested the issue is not of disagreement with the editor, and i am not defending myself or anything.
I am also NOT venting. I really hold editors' comments in regard and do not mind it.
And in my dictionary this does not qualify as saying something bad about someone, and if i do, i do it to the person's face.
I know jordan frequents these forums, and my intention was not to offend him; not even remotely.

Man is in some ways just like the moth, drawn towards the seductive flame of life, even though it burns, pains him.

[RHFay]

erazmus said...
...Moving has seriously stressed by work habits and I need to rededicate.

Mike


Moving will do that to you. It's hard to concentrate on writing (or much anything else for that matter) when your time is consumed by the move.

I know. Been there, done that.

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"

Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
http://azurelionproductions.com

[RHFay]

M. A. Shah said...
I DID NOT mean to offend the editors of EDF, as some have wrongly assumed. Ok so I am not the most diplomatic person on the block. I was just reporting my second rejection.
Contrary to what Lyn suggested the issue is not of disagreement with the editor, and i am not defending myself or anything.
I am also NOT venting. I really hold editors' comments in regard and do not mind it.
And in my dictionary this does not qualify as saying something bad about someone, and if i do, i do it to the person's face.
I know jordan frequents these forums, and my intention was not to offend him; not even remotely.


I am certainly lacking in diplomatic skills as well, and I know full well how things can get blown out of proportion on forums.

However, let me suggest that many, if not all, of the replies here were meant simply as words of advice for an aspiring writer. I believe most of what has been said here was said in the spirit of trying to pass on tidbits of knowledge gained from practical experience.

The simple fact that you posted a gripe implied that you didn't necessarily agree completely with the editorial decision. If you actually understand why the editors did what they did, then truly thereisn't that much to gripe about. As many have already said (including me), rejection happens. Multiple rejections of the same piece, even a revised piece, happen. It's a part of the publication game.

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"

Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
http://azurelionproductions.com

[Jordan Lapp]

M. A. Shah said...
I DID NOT mean to offend the editors of EDF, as some have wrongly assumed. Ok so I am not the most diplomatic person on the block. I was just reporting my second rejection.
Contrary to what Lyn suggested the issue is not of disagreement with the editor, and i am not defending myself or anything. No prob, Shah, as I mentioned before I thought your gripe was appropriate and tactful. However, some writers mentioned that certain editors could have misinterpretted your gripe, and I guess that is a danger.

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
Every Day Fiction (http://www.everydayfiction.com)

[Gbondoni]

True. I completely agree with Jordan. we never meant to imply that it was an offensive gripe. Just saying that, with other editors, it could have unintended consequences. And it has happened to other authors.

Visitmy livejournal! http://bondo-ba.livejournal.com/

[Lyn]

M. A. Shah said: 'Contrary to what Lyn suggested the issue is not of disagreement with the editor, and i am not defending myself or anything.'

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. Typically a 'gripe' is a disagreement of some sort. (And you specifically stated: 'i couldn't have reduced the imagery' - which is in fact an opposing editorial perspective since EDF evidently asked you to rewrite the story less graphically, is this correct?)

However, that being said, my intent was articulated by Gustavo directly above: my comment was not meant to imply you were offensive. I was making general comments based on your particular example. Which is how a lot of the thread discussion develops - someone states a topic and we run with it! lol So I apologize for not communicating clearly. Difficult thing to do some times on discussion boards. /emoticons/smile.gif

Lyn from ResAliens (http://residentialaliens.blogspot.com)

[crystalwizard]

Lyn said...
I know I'm hard to work with. Just ask CW. /emoticons/smile.gif

Since when are you hard to work with?

[M. A. Shah]

Lyn said:'EDF evidently asked you to rewrite the story less graphically, is this correct?'

No actually there were some other issues with it. When I redid the story, i couldnt hold back the graphic scenes.

Man is in some ways just like the moth, drawn towards the seductive flame of life, even though it burns, pains him.

[Lyn]

CW asks, 'Since when are you hard to work with?'
Since I haven't done any Silly Antho work in a week! Yikes, I'm running behind. Promise I'll catch up this weekend.

Also, thanks M.A. for the clarification. Still, the point is gripe/disagreement is okay, but if it's a personal issue that can be worked out with the editor, then the best policy, imo, is to go to the editor directly (which I know you've done, this is a generic opinion summarizing my response to griping/disagreeing publicly).

Lyn from ResAliens (http://residentialaliens.blogspot.com)

[crystalwizard]

Lyn said...
CW asks, 'Since when are you hard to work with?'
Since I haven't done any Silly Antho work in a week! Yikes, I'm running behind. Promise I'll catch up this weekend.

That doesn't make you hard to work with, that just gives me a chance to fill up your inbox ;)

M.A:
You said:

>No actually there were some other issues with it. When I redid the story, i couldnt hold back the graphic scenes.

Oh yes you could. you're the author. you have complete control over how every scene is written. You chose not to hold them back for whatever reason, but yes, you most certainly could have had you wanted to.

[erazmus]

I'll have to take issue with that C.W..

There are plenty of times I've tried to change a story of mine and failed. It is never a matter of want, but usually one of skill and experience. There are things I can't do, things I can't do yet, things I can't do well yet, and plenty of things I won't do. The later only are a matter of choice.

I may refuse to send in a crappy version that includes changes requested. That is my choice, but when I balk at making a change at all, it doesn't mean I didn't attempt it, it means I failed. Usually I just request a specific suggestion and work it through. Clairity of communication between writer and editor, and patience on both sides, can greatly improve a piece and makes me more skilled in the process, but I have run into hard limits on what I can absorb from an editor on a single rewrite and what I have the skill to make work at any given time.

Mike

Michael D. Turner
'Psyched Up' in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
'Dutchman Rescue'in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm (http://www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm)

'An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern' in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php (http://www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php)
'Stains' in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html (http://www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html)
'Morning Coffee' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/)
'The Jewel Below' in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm (http://flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm)
'Happy Landings' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/)
'Teller of Tales' in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/)

[RHFay]

There are times that you just can't really justify, artistically or narritively, making a change suggested by an editor. A writer (or artist of any sort) should follow their gut instinct. If a change feels 'wrong', it may not be the best for that particular piece.

Yes, an author has control over their work (or at least should), and has the control to refuse to make a change.

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"

Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
http://azurelionproductions.com

[crystalwizard]

erazmus said...
I'll have to take issue with that C.W..

There are plenty of times I've tried to change a story of mine and failed. It is never a matter of want, but usually one of skill and experience. There are things I can't do, things I can't do yet, things I can't do well yet, and plenty of things I won't do. The later only are a matter of choice.

I may refuse to send in a crappy version that includes changes requested. That is my choice, but when I balk at making a change at all, it doesn't mean I didn't attempt it, it means I failed. Usually I just request a specific suggestion and work it through. Clairity of communication between writer and editor, and patience on both sides, can greatly improve a piece and makes me more skilled in the process, but I have run into hard limits on what I can absorb from an editor on a single rewrite and what I have the skill to make work at any given time.

Mike

you prove my point, Mike. You said 'choose' over and over.

You certainly have the ability to change the story. you choose not to because it's not what you want it to be with the change, or you don't feel you can make the change correctly.

But you do have the ability. You can sit at the word processor and change the words without any problem. You can take a sentence such as

John looked George in the eye then punched him in the nose

and change it to

Jean looked Georgette in the eye then slapped her on the face

just by deleting the first sentence and typing the second.

you CAN make the changes. you choose not to for various reasons.

[erazmus]

yes, if the editor has suggested changing characer gender, that is usually a simple change.
Unfortunatly not all editors are so clear with what they want. Or so simple.
Tone down the graphic parts is different from change the little girl into one of the dock-workers. Sometimes the editor wants done things I don't know how to do. Really. I'm just a college drop-out who tells stories. I've had an editor request I cut a story down because he felt the climax was a certain part and the rest was dross. The climax was where I put it, for a reason. He was right about everything but the need to cut the story. I thanked him and sent it elsewhere. (Big Pulp bought it, Pink Plastic Flamingos. When it comes out you guys can read it and we'll discuss the particulars). I didn't know how to make the change he was requesting and still have a story.
I have structred stories differently because of that feedback, to advoid running into his perfectly valid complaint.

Mike

Michael D. Turner
'Psyched Up' in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
'Dutchman Rescue'in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm (http://www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm)

'An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern' in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php (http://www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php)
'Stains' in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html (http://www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html)
'Morning Coffee' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/)
'The Jewel Below' in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm (http://flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm)
'Happy Landings' in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/)
'Teller of Tales' in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ (http://www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/)

[MichaelEhart]

Elizabeth Ann Scarborough sent me this the other day--- very funny video of what it is like to work with an editor:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo1XFz0kac0






*not that any of you are like that :)


Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2008!
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica,Ricasso Press, Spring 2008
"To Destroy All Flesh" Return of the Sword, Flashing Swords Press, Spring 2008
"Only His Name" Every Day Fiction, TBA
Still in print!
"The Stars by Law Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, Journey Books, 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Tenoka Press, 2007
http://mehart.blogspot.com/

[Christopher_Heath]

I love those guys. They have a television program called Peepshow. I'll have to watch all their stuff on YouTube. Never heard of That Mitchell and Webb Look. Thanx Michael!

Christopher M. Heath

"Azieran: Kaiburr the Rotund" in Silly Fantasy Anthology by CyberAliens
"Azieran: Claimed by Birthright" in Return of the Sword by Flashing Swords Press
"Azieran: Oathbreaker's Promise" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: The Hollow Kings" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: Adairos" in Tower of Light Fantasy
"Azieran: Savior in a Flask" in Magic and Mechanica by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Travelers Four" in Black Dragon, White Dragon by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Breaking of Hell's Bones" in Black Sails by 1018 Press
"Azieran: Distilling the Essence" in Sails and Sorcery by Fantasist Enterprises
"Azieran: Crestfallen in Mal'kyrrik" serialized novella in Forgotten Worlds


+ others

[crystalwizard]

I made it about half way through the video then had to turn it off. It was either that, or reach through my monitor and slap the editor a few times.

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!


<a href="http://flashingswords.sfreader.com" target="_blank">
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords</a>

Visit my art gallery on art wanted (http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard)
All my books in print (http://sojourn.omnitech.net)

[BarbT]

Fantastic video. I have a friend who likesme toillustrate her self-published work. Her efforts to "help" with the conceptsare so much like that scene that I didn't know whether to laugh or burn my sketch pad. /emoticons/lol.gif


Barb

[Christopher_Heath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO5WoLnOOlU&feature=related

Check this one out...hi-larious!!!!!

Christopher M. Heath

"Azieran: Kaiburr the Rotund" in Silly Fantasy Anthology by CyberAliens
"Azieran: Claimed by Birthright" in Return of the Sword by Flashing Swords Press
"Azieran: Oathbreaker's Promise" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: The Hollow Kings" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: Adairos" in Tower of Light Fantasy
"Azieran: Savior in a Flask" in Magic and Mechanica by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Travelers Four" in Black Dragon, White Dragon by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Breaking of Hell's Bones" in Black Sails by 1018 Press
"Azieran: Distilling the Essence" in Sails and Sorcery by Fantasist Enterprises
"Azieran: Crestfallen in Mal'kyrrik" serialized novella in Forgotten Worlds


+ others

[Bill Ward]

Didn't know those guys had a new show, hope BBC America carries it.

billwardwriter.com</font> (http://www.billwardwriter.com)

[Christopher_Heath]

Which one is the new show? The skits or Peepshow?

Christopher M. Heath

"Azieran: Kaiburr the Rotund" in Silly Fantasy Anthology by CyberAliens
"Azieran: Claimed by Birthright" in Return of the Sword by Flashing Swords Press
"Azieran: Oathbreaker's Promise" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: The Hollow Kings" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: Adairos" in Tower of Light Fantasy
"Azieran: Savior in a Flask" in Magic and Mechanica by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Travelers Four" in Black Dragon, White Dragon by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Breaking of Hell's Bones" in Black Sails by 1018 Press
"Azieran: Distilling the Essence" in Sails and Sorcery by Fantasist Enterprises
"Azieran: Crestfallen in Mal'kyrrik" serialized novella in Forgotten Worlds


+ others

[Bill Ward]

The skits, 'the Mitchell and Webb Look' At least it certainly looks more recent than peepshow.

billwardwriter.com</font> (http://www.billwardwriter.com)