Need More Subs

[EdK]

I need more subs coming in for AJM #9. September is just around the corner and I have enough material to fill about half the magazine. The slush pile is gone. (If you still have a story here, chances are I will be contacting you soon with a contract). In truth, I've been rejecting subs hand over fist. They just aren't up to snuff. I refuse to accept work just to fill the issue. So, send me some good stuff. We do accept email subs now. I prefer sci-fi over fantasy but will read both. Works under 5,000 words stand a better chance at making the cut. I also need another poem under 40 lines. Issue #9 will represent our 3rd Anniversary, so I want it to be full of great writing. Send me some!!! Just make sure it meets our Guidelines (see website).

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[davidolson22]

Maybe you could mention this over at the critters newsgroup. Might get too much that way, but it's better than too little.

http://webnews.sff.net/read?cmd=xover&group=sff.workshop.critters&from=999999999

[Bill Snodgrass]

Ed,

You might want to jump in at The Sword Review on the Contributors Conversations board and make this announcement. Meanwhile, I'm rushing off to see if I can find something that is ready to go out.

:D

----
Bill Snodgrass

www.theswordreview.com

www.siliar.com
www.billsnodgrass.com

[EdK]

Done and Done!!!

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[Red Viper]

Hey ... an editor calling for more subs? That's what I like to hear! Just sent you one, sir. Hope you like it.

Red Viper, aka Steve Goble

[EdK]

Steve,

I liked the last one you sent me.I already had you down for a spot in AJM #9 with your previous submission, but hadn't told you yet. Now I guess I can read this new one and see which I like best. :-)

Anybody else want a piece of the action? It has to be something good. I recieved a few subs since I posted this and AJM #9 is still no closer to being filled. Hit me with your best shot.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[EdK]

I'm willing to read it, but I really need some good sci-fi.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[Red Viper]

Ed ... Saw the email this morning. I'm glad you liked "Gram's Gift," and I'm pleased as punch to have something slated for Amazing Journeys Magazine.

Thank you so much!

Red Viper, aka Steve Goble

[EdK]

Okay, posting my request for submissions at the Critters newsgroup was not a good idea. What a bunch of ingrates. If any of you who have previously published in AJM would mind stepping over there and saying something positive about the magazine, it would be appreciated.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[Red Viper]

Geez, Ed, what did they do? An editor comes looking for stories and they treat him badly? Are they nuts?

Red Viper, aka Steve Goble

[davidolson22]

It started when the most snipy person to use the forum responded to his post. Then it just got worse from there. I tried to defend, but I think I made stuff worse. Sorry.

[Red Viper]

Well, I don't hang out over there, but I can't believe a bunch of writers would give an editor a hard time when he pops in to say, "Hey, I'm publishing ficiton and I want you guys to send me some."

The logic of it escapes me entirely. Even if it's a case of them not enjoying the magazine, you'd think they'd take up the chance to submit some stories that they think should be published. I mean, I don't really like Realms of Fantasy all that much, but I send them stories anyway -- maybe I can help make the magazine more appealing, who knows? I sure wouldn't trash the editors if they put a call for submissions.

Red Viper, aka Steve Goble

[erazmus]

Steve,
I can't agree more. I don't understand it at all. I've never hung out at Critters though my wife did for a while, sometime in the jurassic age (ie more than five years back or so), but why on earth would you want to be rude to an editor? All right, I don't understand why anyone would want to be rude to anyone anyway. If I wanted to be rude to an editor for some reason, and it'd have to be a particular editor not just one at random, I'd want to do it face to face. Much more satisfying plus a much bigger opportunity to embarass and humiliate the person in question infront of people he cares about.
Sad little people seem to congregate on the web. They sit in cyberspace and vilify the work of people who actually do things while doing nothing themselves. Back in the day you had to read the letter pages of Comic books to find such pathetic pucimanomous pipsqueeks, today they sign themselves with silly names and made up titles and flood every accessable user group or web board until they choke it up and drive away decent god-faring rightous users (okay I'm streatching).
Sorry for the rant.
And I used to read and write letters to various comic books. Of course I was ten.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[EdK]

I know I should be ranting on the other board, but since I said I would not post there again, I'll do a bit of venting here...

Basically, I get the impression that the critter writers who responded feel they are too good to write for our little second rate magazine, that and they don't like some of the things in our guidelines. Heck, I just wanted to make an invitation to submit. I know our pay is crummy, but we'll fix that as we grow. Like most of you I thought writers would apprecieate an invitaions to submit.

I didn't go there to pick a fight. I didn't expect a string of responses berating AJM and its publication policies. Of course my sarcastic rebutal only fueled the fire. But, as some of you have seen in these discussions, I have a way of turning a smolder into a blaze (and enjoy doing it most of the time). Like most editors, I have a mind of my own. In the real world editors tell writers what to write to gain publication in their products. I know the market and readership I'm trying to reach and write guidelines that should give writers an idea of what I'm willing to buy and what I'm willing to pay for it. These "critters" responding to my call seemed to live in a dream world in which their opinions in regard to content selection and how much I can budget for payment carries some weight. I have news for them, it doesn't. And I doubt it carries much weight with other editors and publishers either.

I have respect for writers, can't work without them. But no writer in today's world can afford to start thinking that they are so good that they can influence a publisher to publish material that doesn't meet his/her market needs. It just doesn't work that way.

These writers scoffed at our request for G-PG rated material, said it was limiting. Yep, it limits submissions to the kind of work we've promised our readership we would publish.

They complained that we wanted "golden aged" style sci-fi and fantasy, that too being limiting Yep, I suppose the term "nitch marketing" isn't in their expansive vocabularies.

They don't like that we only publish North American writers; that too is limiting. Yep, I've tried publishing a few writers from overseas and found that their presense in the magazine did not increase sales as we have no overseas market in which to promote them. This is a business, gotta try to make a buck and keep the ball rolling.

Now, to the fact that we do not publish work that promotes gay lifestyles. It's in the guidelines because I believe in being honest with writers. Yes, this one is a personal choice on my part. It would be easy for me to not put it in the GL's and just reject the stories when they come along. But, I know I'm not going to publish them, so why not go ahead and tell writers. I won't waste their time and efforts. I'm not a gay basher; there is no hatred in my heart for folks who choose that lifestyle. But, my own beliefs will not allow me to promote it in our publications either. On the other hand, you'll never see an anti-gay word published here either. That's just the way it is. Take it or leave it.

Oh well, talk about ranting...

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[erazmus]

Ed,
Heck I was just starting to enjoy the rant!
I'll have to admit I was dissappointed in some aspect of your guidelines because they meant I didn't have anything to send to you because my usual mode of writing doesn't produce anything that would meet them. But at least you told me so I will not tie up my work and waste your time with stuff that you would or could not publish even if it was terrific. And I'll take this opportunity to thank you for it.
Thanks for the heads up.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[EdK]

You're reading my rant faster than I can edit it. I hope you'll write something special sometime just to send to AJM. I'd like to read your work.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[erazmus]

Ed,
The only thing I write fast is posts. And half the time I put my foot in my mouth doing it.
But I might find the time to write one that'd fit, special for you, sometime. I saw your guidelines a few months ago at Ralan's and I went through my story files to see if I had anything even remotely likely. I reread each story to check. I was shocked, shocked! to find out how much of my writing is littered with sex, foul language, gay relationships, sex, very adult situations, sex, graphic visereal violence and of course sex. Of course (to paraphrase Elvira) there's nothing wrong with G rated material, as long as there's lots of sex and violence.[;)]I'd like to try some if only to get away from my usual crutches.
(Someone in a panel I was watching quoted a writer, I forget who, who said if you don't know what to do next, have someone walk into the room with a gun. I have someone walk into the room, naked and swinging a sword. It works, but I could do better.)
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[davidolson22]

They complained that we wanted "golden aged" style sci-fi and fantasy, that too being limiting Yep, I suppose the term "nitch marketing" isn't in their expansive vocabularies.

That was me, but I didn't complain. (You read into what I wrote something that wasn't there). Someone had previously written than you got few good submission because the magazine wasn't very good. I was saying that the low numbers was because you wanted Golden aged science fiction, which not that many people write.

Really, only about half of the posts were negative. The others were simply factual.

[erazmus]

David,
That half the posts responding to a call for submissions on a writing board were negative is just very, very sad. Of course its easier to sit around saying that Crap-DOT-com doesn't ever print anything worth reading that it is to send them a story. Especially when that means they may buy it and next month all your wanna be friends are sitting around saying how Crap-DOT-com still doesn't print anything worth reading and you realise they mean _your stuff stinks too_.
Real writer write, polish then submit! Posers polish and polish and polish but never send out their stories anywhere that might buy them. And a real pro doesn't have time to run down anybody's market just because it's low paying, low circulation and not taking the kind of things they write. The smart ones know that the low paying e-mag editor today may be the aquisitions editor at Warner Aspect tommorrow and you might not want to piss him or her off needlessly.All of them are or ought to be too busy writing to do so anyway.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[erazmus]

Well I got home from work and dug around in my story file. I found an older short short of mine that fits Ed's guidelines in at least the broadest sense. I probably had it out when I read the guides before. I was going to keep shopping it around at higher paying markets but what the heck, Ed's a good guy and I'd be very, very proud to be published in his magazine. I only wish it were a science fiction piece but I write very, very few of those and the only one I have is at Continuum SF and has been for six months. And it had (very mild) sex in it.
The story is probably too dark but as I advised another writer here, I'll not second guess an editor as to what he wants. It meets the guides and its available and I would have sent it to Ed sooner or later anyway.
Ed, I hope you like it.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[Ingrate]

It's true, you know. I think I can guarantee that nobody in the Critters ng has ever run across the term "nitch marketing".

They probably don't even know what a nitch IS.

[EdK]

Excuse my blunder that would be "niche" as ingrate so "politely" points out.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[Daniel]

It's true, you know. I think I can guarantee that nobody in the Critters ng has ever run across the term "nitch marketing".

They probably don't even know what a nitch IS.

***

They may not understand what a niche is either, if the upstream accounts are accurate. What kind of writer (s) heckle a legitimate call for submissions? There are a lot of burned out, very cynical folks in this industry who seem incapable of embracing creativity and growth. That so many aspriring writers of short SF attach so much meaning to monetary payment (which even in the prestige markets isn't as much as you could make mowing lawns in a week) is an indication of just how naive and egocentric many of them truly are.

Ed, one thing you may think about doing is issuing your calls for submissions far outside the usual industry sites and lists. There's nothing wrong with seeking out truly new talent, that is, writers who don't yet know the virtues of petulance over being published, nor the efficacy of insulting hard-working editors who actually make their ambitions possible.

And "Ingrate"...

If you are here just to play "Troll" we can probably do without your input.



Daniel

www.pitchblackbooks.com

[unclepete]

[b]quote:That so many aspriring writers of short SF attach so much meaning to monetary payment (which even in the prestige markets isn't as much as you could make mowing lawns in a week) </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Daniel, that is one of the best shots of perspective I've seen in a long time -- everyone would do well to remember that. [:D]

Ed -- I'm too boggled by the situation to even respond coherently.[:(!]

It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man.-- H. L. Mencken

[EdK]

Thanks, Daniel.

David,
I apologize if I took your post the wrong way, though I might disagree with above "factual" remark.

Oh well, at least I have a few dozen new submissions to read. That's what I really wanted. Thanks to those who sent me something. You'll get a quick turnaround on your submission one way or the other.

I think the thing that bothers me most about this whole thing is that the "critters" post in a round about way belittles AJM writers. Getting into AJM is tough folks. I'm picky as Hell, rejecting hundreds of submissions a month, several hundred per quarterly issue(reading every one myself). I'm looking for something very specific. When I find it I get excited about it. Writers who get accepted to AJM are way under paid for their talent, no question, no argument. But they are writers who are being snubbed by the big presses and can't get their foot in the door. They are EXCELLENT writers whose work is highly regarded here. Many will go on from here to do great things with their writing.

btw/ 1/4 cent per word is our minimum payment (and usual payment). I am starting to pay a little more to writers who come back with good stuff more than twice. So, if you really want more money, send me more material and get published more than once. I can promise you still won't get rich writing short stories. I don't care who you write them for.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[erazmus]

Daniel,
I'm as attached to monetary compensation for my work as any writer you'll find anywhere. I sold my first two short stories for a little over a thousand dollars total and I've always believed that getting paid was an important part of my writing process. I use my money from writing to market my writing and have fun. That means attending SF conventions so I can sit on panels, sit at panels and hob-nob with folks who might be able to further my carreer. That can be writers, editors or plain old fans. I've yet to pick up any hot little chippies that think being a published writer makes me fascinating but I still hold out hope.[;)]
This year I have no sales and so I'll go to no cons. That's fair.
I've still never been less than polite to someone who wanted to see my work. Not even obnoxious fans who want to leech onto me at conventions when I'm busy trying to leech onto more well known persons. Especially not to anyone who could concievably give greater exposure to my work. You know how much exposure I've gotten from this years sales? Nada, cause I have no sales this year. I've sold stories at 33 cents a word and I've sold them at 1/4 cent a word and, duh, I prefer the former but the latters okay too. It sure beats the hell out of no sales.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[Daniel]

I've yet to pick up any hot little chippies that think being a published writer makes me fascinating but I still hold out hope

***

Try poetry! I think I slid by on "poetry and chippies" for longer than anyone should!

LOL

Daniel

www.pitchblackbooks.com

[Daniel]

I deleted my second reply -- seems you have all said what needed to be said already (also in the "gripe" forum).

That's what I get for coming in late!

Daniel

www.pitchblackbooks.com

[Ingrate]

[b]quote:Originally posted by Daniel
And "Ingrate"...

If you are here just to play "Troll" we can probably do without your input.</blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Wow, and people here complain that the Critters newsgroup is judgmental and unfriendly...

[Daniel]

I wasn't being unfriendly. Just saying: pick at a guy for a typo/misspelling (this isn't a critique group) -- name yourself "Ingrate," -- how should you be greeted?

BTW, I never said (nor did anyone else here) that the Critters group was "judgmental and unfriendly," I said writers who lambaste an editor for offering them a chance to submit their work are acting silly and egotistical. Actually I said "naive" and "egocentric" as these terms apply to a monetary standard for short speculative fiction.

Nice to meet you, Ingrate. Now that you're here I'll have to start spell-checking ;-)



Daniel

www.pitchblackbooks.com

[Daniel]

I've still never been less than polite to someone who wanted to see my work. Not even obnoxious fans who want to leech onto me at conventions when I'm busy trying to leech onto more well known persons.

***

That's good practice, Michael. I must say Tanith Lee, E.E. Knight, Vera Nazarian, Howard Andrew Jones, D.K. Latta, John C. Hocking, Barbara Tarbox, Joseph A. McCullough V, Dave Felts, Nancy Virginia Varian, and the other LoS contributors are some of the classiest writers I've ever encountered. Almost all of them are well-published and can command pro rates for their work. When I approached these excellent writers about participating in a debut anthology from a start-up company, some of them for semipro pay, not ONE of them batted an eye.

Instead, they contributed works of fantasy short fiction that are being read all around the world,(soon in a bookstore near you!) that will bring pleasure to thousands of people and will bring their work and vision to a growing audience.

If that's good enough for these writers, some of whom actually do make their living writing, it would seem to be a good enough strategy for ambitious writers such as those who frequent Critters, as well.

BTW, I encourage everyone to order LoS, and decide for yourself whether semipro pay can incite professional quality work -- I certainly don't have any doubt in my mind. Many of the writers
were paid a pro rate for their stories in LoS and S&S, but some were not -- and even at a pro rate, we're not talking about sending your kids to college from the money your short-stories earn, unfortunately.

Daniel

www.pitchblackbooks.com

[Ingrate]

[b]quote:Originally posted by DanielNice to meet you, Ingrate. Now that you're here I'll have to start spell-checking ;-)</blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Nice to be here :).

[erazmus]

Daniel,
I think a lot of writers get caught up in trying to qualify for SFWA membership. I have, and it is taking me long enough that it could be starting to affect my attitude in negative ways. The same could happen to any writer, I'm sure.
I know I often send a story out to markets where it doesn't have much of a chance, just because it does have _some_ chance and I want the "pro" sale credit. I need one and a half more to become a SFWA member. Realisticly I'd be better off getting my work into publications where it will stand out, not slip by. It'd be much better to have the best story in _Flashing Swords_ issue X than to be the weak sister in this months _Weird Tales_ even if it were the same story. Even better to be the standout at W.T. but much as I try not everything I write will be hugo material. Even multiple hugo winners are in the same boat there.
But consistent output is the real key to having a long, successful carreer. If I had a story out every month, month after month, I'd be much farther along to what I want, which is to be a well known and well reguarded writer of fantastic prose.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[Brick]

Hey E,
Your probably right on that one. I just always thought you sent the story to whoever was paying the most, and then after you got rejected you sent it to the next highest payer--with consideration as to what the magazines niche is.

By the way the guy that said, "Have somebody walk in with a gun," was Raymond Chandler, one of my heroes.

Which only points out that I write the kind of stuff that I would like to read. And then you get into the whole conversation about "slipstream." Those early guys like Poe, and Verne (even Jack London--whose SF stories I have yet to read), they didn't have to worry about genre.

[erazmus]

I thought is was Chandler but didn't want to get caught out writing from the top of my head. I keep meaning to, just for a lark, try the technique exactly as stated in a fantasy story.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[erazmus]

Ed,
You should be hearing from some of the members of my group, the ones that live here in the states anyways. The Zeelaner and the Israeli aren't too put out, but don't travel to South Africa this year.[;)]
Hope the gang sends you something you can use.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[EdK]

Thanks, Mike.
I've already received a few submissions with a note that says, 'Mike sent me'. Now if I buy their stories, they owe you one for giving them an "in" with the publisher.

Anybody want to buy this pair of plane tickets to South Africa; they're scheduled for next week. Guess I won't be going after all. :-)


Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[erazmus]

LoL, Ed.
That was Hyperbole, of course. We have a Zeelander and an Isrealie but no South African[;)]. The only S.African I know well enough to speak to is writer David Freer, and he's as gentle as a lamb.
I'm glad they found work to send you and I hope you find something you can use in it. I thought they might be able to, I'm the only real purveyor of filth in the group so the others should have had plenty to send. Good luck filling the issue.
Mike


"There's nothing _wrong_ with "G" rated movies, as long as there's a lot of sex and violence"--Elvira, Mistress of the Dark

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[terrytvgal]

Hey Ed,

I'm just weighing in here to let you know that you shouldn't judge all critters by the words of a few. I counted only a dozen or so names in that discussion and most weighed in more than once.

I wasn't around when your call went out for material and I don't frequent the Critters boards much ( Because I find them difficult to navigate).

I made it my business to find your request and the replies it received.

I was dismayed to see that people were so rude to you. I'd hate to think of a piece of my fiction passing across your desk some day with my association to Critters proudly noted, only to have my submission tainted before it got a chance based on this incident.

That being said, I must say that I wonder if there is a way to discourage submissions of the sort you don't want that is a little less, well, blunt.

"...will never publish gay or lesbian work, so don't bother."

I found it to be overkill. Your earlier statement about sexual content should be enough to make people understand that ANY sexuality is not going to be a way to get a nod from you.

There is, of course, a much more unpleasant interpretation that could be found in that phrasing and I truly shudder to think that you could be saying that you might reject work by anyone based on their bedroom partner.

It seems to me that some of the vitriol you found at critters could be stemming from such a reading of your statement. (though I would be at a loss to know how you would ever know such a thing... which is why I can't quite wrap my head around the phrasing you've chosen)

I'd take it as personal favour if you could help me to be sure of the exact meaning you intended.

None the less, I don't have anything I could submit. I seem to be far too long winded and not Science Fictional enough for your needs. As for the 'no swearing, keep in clean' criteria not a problem for me! [:o)]

Actually the call inspired me to see if I could put together any sort of short science fiction-y story... good, bad or ugly. Seeing someone ask for work on an open forum gives me great hope that there is a place for everyone willing to work hard. [:D]

[jonesha]

Ed, I sometimes suggest good writers to head your way if I like what they have but don't think it's right for Flashing Swords.

best,
Howard

Managing Editor
www.swordandsorcery.org
Flashing Swords E-Zine

[EdK]

Thanks, Howard. I'll do the same for Flashing Swords.


Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[terrytvgal]

[b]quote:Originally posted by nathan meyer

Terry, I think Ed meant work containing gay and lesbian characters/situations/themes not that work of a golden age SF nature written by someone who may or may not be gay.

eveyone wants to shoot the gun; no one wants to kill the cat.
meyernate@aol.com
</blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It is my supposition that that is, indeed, what he meant. Sometimes however a phrase can strike people in unanticipated ways and that is what I postulate could have happened in this case.

I wanted Ed to have the opportunity to make any clarifiation he felt might be necessary. I posted my comment in the Gripes area too and there has been a small calm discussion which has made me feel somewhat better.

[JRuland]

Hey guys,

I guess I dropped in here a bit late, but I read through this whole thread and it really struck out at me to find that other people were having trouble with some of the Critters people. Of course I think it's absurd to judge thousands of people by the words of a few, but I also had similar problems with Critters--which caused me to quit the workshop.

To me, it seemed that way too many Critters (most of whom had never been published) thought that they were the leading authorities on writing. Most of these people could not make an objective statement if their lives depended on it. Many would try to argue with my comments after receiving my critique of their story, when I was simply trying to do my best to show them the story from my point of view. Many would assume an air of indignance, as if I was simply missing the point of their story and someone like me could never be expected to understand it anyway.

It got to the point where I finally decided to do the minimum just for credit because of the responses I got to some of my critiques, and after a while I decided I didn't like doing the minimum and the workshop wasn't worth it for me.

Of course there are a lot of good, reasonable people in Critters, but I think the main problem is that the workshop is too big and you deal with completely different people every week. You have people drifting in and out of the "community" and people can say anything they want because they'll never have to deal with someone again if they don't want to.

You have my sympathies Ed, I know where you're coming from.

Jon

[Red Viper]

Jon: Those guys who wanted to argue with your critiques should have taken the fiction writing course I took at Ohio State University a few million years ago.

We had to submit our work so class members could read it, then we'd meet and the class would dissect the work for two hours. The author being dissected was NOT ALLOWED TO RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS IN ANY WAY. Our instructor, a novelist named Nicholas Guild, justified that by telling us that when you send you MS off to a potential publisher or sell a book to a reader, you won't be sitting there to explain what your thinking was or what you really meant when you wrote it.

That process was torture. It was grueling. And it was extraordinarily instructive.

Red Viper, aka Steve Goble

[erazmus]

[b]quote:Originally posted by Red Viper

We had to submit our work so class members could read it, then we'd meet and the class would dissect the work for two hours. The author being dissected was NOT ALLOWED TO RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS IN ANY WAY. Our instructor, a novelist named Nicholas Guild, justified that by telling us that when you send you MS off to a potential publisher or sell a book to a reader, you won't be sitting there to explain what your thinking was or what you really meant when you wrote it.

That process was torture. It was grueling. And it was extraordinarily instructive.

Red Viper, aka Steve Goble
</blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Steve
Sounds like it would be. It also sounds realistic. Once you have a story in print that's what its like. And it never fails that you can see where, no matter how well your story was recieved, you could have made it better. There is nothing like holding your own work in your hands, in the same form you have enjoyed the works of others in, to bring your focus in at the same level you evaluate everything else you read. This can be crushing, challenging and enourmously instructive. I think it is only at that point that a writer can really set himself a standard to write for, once he's seen his work right up against every writer who's ever sold a story. Holding up a manuscript just isn't the same.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com

[JRuland]

[b]quote:[i]
Our instructor, a novelist named Nicholas Guild, justified that by telling us that when you send you MS off to a potential publisher or sell a book to a reader, you won't be sitting there to explain what your thinking was or what you really meant when you wrote it.
</blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Absolutely. I once tried explaining this to a Critter who tried to argue with me, and he assumed the "I guess you don't understand this" attitude. Needless to say, it annoyed me.

[MichaelEhart]

Ed, do you still need subs?

Faust-- How comes it then that thou art out of hell? Mephistophilis-- Why this is hell, nor am I out of it.

[EdK]

Issue #9 is filled, but there's always the December issue. I have about 30 unread submissions at the moment. I will probably be a few weeks in knocking those out because I have other irons in the fire right now. I won't complain if I get a few more. The more the merrier (and the more plums I get to choose from).

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[AngelineHawkes-Craig]

Hello!
When you say Fantasy, what type of Fantasy are you more likely to purchase? High Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, etc etc? Recently some fellow writers and I were lamenting the lack of publishers accepting Epic Fantasy [of the Conan-esque, Howard-esqe variation], are you open to that sort of fantasy...without the high gore/violence level of course.

~Angeline

http://www.angelinehawkes-craig.com
The Swan Road
http://www.double-dragon-ebooks.com/single.asp?ISBN=1-55404-239-9

[AngelineHawkes-Craig]

Hi Nathan,
Oh! I've lurked! I've had some editors want me to cut the violence/gore factors and happy **** up for them. Steven and I bitch about this "pussification" of epic fantasy as we refer to it, all of the time. Some people see my name, think "chick" and then want me to smooch smooch up the endings and have everyone ride into the sunset...when that **** just didn't happen in reality. You stick a man in the gut, he's gonna bleed.

Oh, sorry, the rant turns on pretty fast in this dept...should have pre-warned you![:)]

http://www.angelinehawkes-craig.com
The Swan Road
http://www.double-dragon-ebooks.com/single.asp?ISBN=1-55404-239-9

[AngelineHawkes-Craig]

Oh, man...didn't know I'd get edited....oops...will watch my mouth...[:D]

Hi Nathan....yeah, I always took the realistic approach to teaching Brit Lit...the one that involved how religion dictated what basically could get written or not...luckily, you're dealing with seniors at that point, so you can get into Byron's oversexed life and how it affected his poetry...etc. And don't forget Shakespeare is pretty damn bloody...adultry, murder, fornication, jealousy -- Old Will had it all. Which then sucks you towards the old King James Bible...which is always fun to teach too...especially when you get into King James' whole life!





http://www.angelinehawkes-craig.com
The Swan Road
http://www.double-dragon-ebooks.com/single.asp?ISBN=1-55404-239-9

[davidolson22]

I once tried explaining this to a Critter who tried to argue with me, and he assumed the "I guess you don't understand this" attitude.

I always have that thought when reading critiques, but I try to realize it is my fault as the author, not the readers fault.

[EdK]

Angeline,

I'm certainly open to just about any type of fantasy. A bit of blood and gore is acceptable. The upcoming issue is full of it. I hate to sound as if I'm making a sales pitch, but maybe you'd enjoy reading our next issue, especially considering that many on this board are represented.

Anyway, I'd like to read your work. I don't care for a lot of smooching in my fantasy. Well, not the fantasies I publish. I better shut up...

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[Suuran Songforge]

I know my story has some blood. I'd call it "heroic fantasy" from among the millions of fantasy subgenres.

Sean T. M. Stiennon (AKA Suuran Songforge)

For information about me, see my author page at www.sfreader.com/authors/seanstiennon (http://www.sfreader.com/authors/seanstiennon).

[Piotr]

Wow!

The type of potential stories being talked around here is awesome! I'm still shrinking my "When September Ends" story (*coughs* It's the forth working title, was called "Return to Base", then "Breakthrough" and back to the first title and now the current one). I've cut 5000 words, and need to swap things around a bit.

At any case, the story's set in the year 2105 in September and revolves around a young enlistedman undercover returning to base with his injured partner, and instead of turning left they turn right... and generally that's where things get interesting. Oddly enough, there's no violence or anything James Bond like, just realism... er, at least fictional realism [;)]

I have to admit that I more than likely see a sequal, or even a serial [:D] but I'm saying this because my imagination's on overdrive with the events going on in the story's background... and this story had to cut scenes featuring the bad guys, actually they're kinda funny.

Anyway, I need to go... need to shrink the story and rewrite bits and pieces[:I]

Piotr Mierzejewski
--
All the Way from New Zealand... Man, gotta love cyberspace!

[erazmus]

Petey,
Shut up and go write[;)].
Two ravens didn't have any blood or gore in it . . .er, wait up, I guess it did.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Two Ravens" in Amazing Journeys Magazine coming Sept. 05
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises

[Piotr]

Yeap, noted... shutting up, writing!



[b]quote:Originally posted by erazmus

Petey,
Shut up and go write[;)].
Two ravens didn't have any blood or gore in it . . .er, wait up, I guess it did.
Mike
</blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Piotr Mierzejewski
--
All the Way from New Zealand... Man, gotta love cyberspace!

[AngelineHawkes-Craig]

Hi Ed [Edward?],
The story I had at the time of the post is now wrapped up in a 4 author project...I've started a new barbarian series and hope to whip out a few more here soon before I start my new novel...the novel has begun to call to me though, so I need to get whipping pretty quickly. I will defintely send you something as soon as I get it written. Glad to know there's a market out there waiting to take such tales!

Angeline

http://www.angelinehawkes-craig.com
The Swan Road
http://www.double-dragon-ebooks.com/single.asp?ISBN=1-55404-239-9

[EdK]

Looking forward too it.


Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[mikemunsil]

Ed

Why don't you go on over to Liberty Hall and advertise your mag and solicit submissions there? I've made a place just for that purpose and you don't need to register just to post in that forum. Here's the link:

http://www.munsil.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=150

mikemunsil

http://www.munsil.net
Liberty Hall Writer's Forums and Weekly Flash Challenges

[EdK]

Hmm... seems the last time someone invited me to post on another board I was flamed; toasted roasted and burned... I don't know if I can take the heat. :-)




Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[erazmus]

But Ed, did any of that hurt your sales?
There is no bad publicity, and anominity is not a small presses friend.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Two Ravens" in Amazing Journeys Magazine coming Sept. 05
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises

[EdK]

Good point.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com

[EdK]

btw, the article in Writer's Digest has resulted in a flood of submissions and a few new subscribers. Free advertising is good advertising.

Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
Amazing Journeys Magazine

http://www.journeybookspublishing.com
http://www.journeybooksonline.com