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Thread: The Tough Guide to Fantasyland

  1. #1

    Default The Tough Guide to Fantasyland

    I've been seeing recommendations Diana Wynne Jones' The Tough Guide to Fantasyland for years, many of them in the form of 'if you write fantasy, you must read this book.' It was reviewed in January's F&SF 'Books to Look For':

    Charles de Lint said...
    Who's this book for? That's easy:
    --Anyone who's thinking of writing a fantasy novel or story. Seriously. You need to read this to see how easy it is to fall into cliche, and so, hopefully, avoid it.
    --Anyone who reads fantasy. You'll laugh, trust me. And you know, Jones isn't laughing at you, she's laughing at all the people who don't get it.
    --Anyone who hates fantasy. Because it points out all the reasons you don't like fantasy, and does so with killer humor.
    The book is kind of a tour guide for protagonists. Here's a couple of entries:

    Diana Wynne Jones said...

    Common Cold. This is one of many viral nuisances not present. You can get as wet, cold, and tired as you like, and you will still not catch cold. But see PLAGUE.

    Waterfalls are generally very tall and thin (see LANDSCAPE). If the Management draws your attention to a Waterfall, it will not be for its scenic value. It will be because there are CAVES or a hiding-place or a secret colony of friendly folk behind it. You will have to turn sideways and slither along the rock to reach it.
    There's a new edition out, but I picked up a used copy of the original (1996). It's taken me about a month to read it; I'd read a few entries while cooking, while brushing my teeth, while waiting for the tub to fill, while waiting for my turn when playing Empire Builder with my wife, etc. It's a good book for filling in the gaps.

    And de Lint is correct, I did laugh. Out loud, maybe a half-dozen times, and I was amused on many occasions. Overall, however, I was unimpressed. I read fantasy almost exclusively, and I just haven't read that much that I recognized in this book. Consequently, it didn't resonate with me. The depth and breadth of my reading is not great, and maybe I've avoided a lot of the Extruded Fantasy Product (EFP--not a term from this book, by the way). Unlike de Lint, I'm not on the receiving end of a never-ending stream of books from people hoping for a review. I do know such books exist--almost every element of Eragon, for example, is covered in this book--but I don't find myself complaining that it's a pervasive problem.

    My wife read it and laughed far more often than I did. I frequently found myself annoyed. Take STEW, for example. It is probably her most common target. Aside from the entry for it, I'd guess it gets mentioned a few dozen times. Her sarcasm is not without some merit, but it leaves me assuming she has never had to deal with food bacteria in an environment without refrigeration. Likewise her comments about never getting to eat raw vegetables. Does she have any idea what farming and food-handling practices were like in some medieval settings? Boil that sucker!

    If you find yourself lamenting over the lack of originality in fantasy, I recommend this book. You'll probably love it. If not, you still might enjoy it, and it does collect a whole lot of cliches in one place. Myself, I'm glad I read it--once--but I guess I fall into de Lint's 'don't get it' category. (I did get a couple of story ideas from it, so we'll see who has the last laugh! [img]/emoticons/smilewinkgrin.gif[/img])

    --Jeff Stehman

  2. Default

    It was a very helpful book for me as a writer -- I picked it up when I was working on Goblin Quest, and I ended up making a lot of good changes to the final manuscript based on cliches and other lazy shortcuts I caught after reading Jones' book.

    I actually did have my characters eating nothing but stew in an early draft. By the end, I had introduced a goblin chef who ended up being one of my favorite secondary characters. Nothing wrong with stew, but why settle when you can have barbequed elf ribs glazed with klak beer and sprinkled with fire-spider eggs?




    In the history of grand adventures and heroic quests, goblinkind has never been more than a footnote. That's about to change....

    Goblin Quest -- Available from DAW Books.
    Goblin Hero-- Coming in May, 2007.

  3. #3

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    Jeff Stehman said...
    Take STEW, for example. It is probably her most common target. Aside from the entry for it, I'd guess it gets mentioned a few dozen times. Her sarcasm is not without some merit, but it leaves me assuming she has never had to deal with food bacteria in an environment without refrigeration. Likewise her comments about never getting to eat raw vegetables. Does she have any idea what farming and food-handling practices were like in some medieval settings? Boil that sucker!
    or for that matter, how about 'does she have any idea what it's like to go backpacking or hiking without an RV? You don't take fresh veggies with you, you take dried. You make stew or soup because its easy. One small pan, a little water and some of those dried veggies. Probably a few bits of dried jerky which will reconstitue ok if you break it up small enough.

    It does sound sorta funny, but I would probably read it more from a 'I've played in an awful lot of games that sound like this' perspective not a 'hmmm that sounds like a book I read'.

    Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!

    Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
    http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard

    All my books in print:
    http://sojourn.omnitech.net

  4. #4

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    Jim C. Hines said...

    I actually did have my characters eating nothing but stew in an early draft. By the end, I had introduced a goblin chef who ended up being one of my favorite secondary characters. Nothing wrong with stew, but why settle when you can have barbequed elf ribs glazed with klak beer and sprinkled with fire-spider eggs?
    Yes, but your chef doesn't go with the party when they go exploring, she stays behind in the kitchen. Most fantasy books don't spend the majority of their plot in an inn, boarding house, farm house or other places with a kitchen. Most of the plot is mobile.

    Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!

    Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
    http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard

    All my books in print:
    http://sojourn.omnitech.net

  5. #5

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    crystalwizard said...
    I would probably read it more from a 'I've played in an awful lot of games that sound like this' perspective not a 'hmmm that sounds like a book I read'.
    Indeed, that is what I was thinking through much of the book.

    --Jeff Stehman

  6. #6
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    I'll have to seek this one out. Sounds . . . interesting in an annoying way, or is it annoying in an interesting way?
    Mike

    Michael D. Turner
    'Psyched Up' in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
    www.baen.com
    'Dutchman Rescue'in Continuum SF #6
    www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

    'An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern' in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
    www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php

  7. #7

    Default

    Jeff Stehman said...
    The book is kind of a tour guide for protagonists. Here's a couple of entries:

    Diana Wynne Jones said...

    Common Cold. This is one of many viral nuisances not present. You can get as wet, cold, and tired as you like, and you will still not catch cold. But see PLAGUE.
    Urgh. Wouldn't you know it, my first novel has one of the protagonists catching a common cold. And her partner feeds her soup in bed.

    So much for my dreams of that book getting picked up by a major publisher one day... [img]/emoticons/cry.gif[/img]

    Robert Orme

    P.S. In my third novel(still in progress), one of them gets heat stroke. That's probably illegal too, huh?

    Out now:
    'On the Tree Top' in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
    'The Scab, the Man, and the I.V.' in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)

    Coming soon:
    'More Than One Way to Protect' in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/blogs/)
    'And Afterward' and 'Candy Lover' in Flashshot, April 30 and May 23 (www.gwthomas.org/subscribe.htm)

  8. #8

    Default

    A Tough Guide said...
    Heatstroke is rare but, since it is caused by the sun and not by bacteria, it can happen. Expect to be smitten by it in the DESERT. It will cause you only a day or so of acute discomfort.
    You're safe. [img]/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    The protag in my first novel catches a nasty virus, too. Because he is so emotionally rundown and living in a crowded city for much of the story, I've been thinking about hitting him with a second one when I revise. Some of her cliches show up in my work, but overall I'm pretty clean.

    --Jeff Stehman

  9. #9

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    Sheesh, I guess I better re-write one of the chapters in my first book. One of the characters catches a virus of some sort and is ill for several days... in the middle of the woods miles from anywhere no less.

    Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!

    Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
    http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard

    All my books in print:
    http://sojourn.omnitech.net

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