CreateSpace--backdoor to Amazon?

[H.P. Lovesauce]

The NY Times ran a bit on self-publishing today, making a hoo-ha about the CreateSpace service that offers placement in Amazon.


Free ISBN (under the "CreateSpace" imprint), but I'm not sure about the per-unit price:


Royalty Summary
Amount earned on sales = Your list price minus our share (shown below)


Our Share
Fixed Charge $3.15 / unit
Black and White Printing (or) + $.02 / page*
Color Printing + $.12 / page*
Share for sales on E-Store +20% / sale
Share for sales on Amazon.com +30% / sale



What think? Is the Amazon exposure--including the ability to have visitors Look Inside!--worth the expense?

[Bill Ward]

Isn't it already easy to get something on Amazon? I know next to nothing about this, but I have seen self-published titles on Amazon, as well as small press stuff of all kinds. Maybe this service would make things even easier, and that could be a selling point I suppose.

billwardwriter.com</font>

[Hamstersbane]

How do those prices compare to something like Lulu or Lightning Press?

Jeff Parish
Jennings Grove, an online horror serial novel
http://jenningsgrove.gravesidetales.com

[H.P. Lovesauce]

I suspect LightningSource is cheaper. They can offer listings in catalogs and availability through (I think) B&T. Plus getting copies to hand-sell is cheaper and more flexible.

Funny we haven't a definitive article on that...

[cussedness]

accrispin.blogspot.com/

Amazon is forcing the small press to go with booksurge or face not being able to sell on their site. This move includes amazon.uk.

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa?necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

The Shadowed Princes
www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook64690.htm?cache
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com/

[Jaqhama]

Is it possible that major print publishing companies feel threatened by POD and small press publishers and may have been somehow involved in Amazon's new policy?

Being Aussie I only really know about Amazon as a huge internet book seller...can someone suggest another major on-line bookseller I can use instead?

You can read some of mystories here:
Skulkers. Jack be nimble, Jack be quick. RAT's. La Carcajou. Jet Bike Boogie...at www.pulpanddagger.com
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
at www.bikernet.com(Plus many of my motorcycle related articles.)
The Covert OP. Chick Prick...at www.milstory.com

[KreelanWarrior]

a great source of info - particularly on 'scamazon 2008' - is PODdymouth's blog. [img]/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

lightning source offers the lowest print cost, but the flip side is that they don't really cater to individual authors: they don't offer a lot of the services that some of the other PODs do. i'm going to go with them because i happen to have enough technical savvy to do the necessary formatting, etc. so you have to determine if you're up for that bit of challenge!

also, as lovesauce noted, lightning source distributes to baker & taylor and ingram (which is their parent company), along with barnes & noble (i was going to say 'as well as amazon', but i guess not!). this whole thing with booksurge really torques me off: amazon is huge already, they don't need a vertical monopoly!

for jaqhama - i'm not an expert on the publishing field, by any stretch, but from what i've been reading the traditional publishing houses are probably going to go the way of the dinosaurs in not too many more years. POD technology and their own antiquated business model are making this happen.

as for alternative on-line booksellers to amazon, my first thought would be www.barnesandnoble.com, but i can't say if they'll ship down under! [img]/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

cheers,
mike

Author of In Her Name, a Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel now available on Mobipocket. Click here for a free excerpt!

[RLCopple]

Well, to date, Amazon is still selling my novel, and offering free shipping, on $25 or more purchases. So get 'em while their hot!

My publisher uses Lightening Source too. But I've not read they will not allow other PODs to not sell there. One note from Amazon said if they keep a few copies in inventory, they'll sell them because they can ship them out right away in most cases, which seems to be their beef, at least publicly, as to why they are doing this. I guess once mine sell out, we'll see if it continues to be for sell or not.

R. L. Copple

blog.rlcopple.com
www.raygunradio.com
www.haruah.com

Infinite Realities available at Amazon.com

[cussedness]

I had signed up with Lightning source just as this news broke. I am still going with LSI, but I think using createspace also is a compatible plan. There is a clause in the createspace contract that irritates me, but fictionwise has the same one. You cannot offer the book somewhere else at a lower price, including special offers, than it is offered at amazon.

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa?necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

The Shadowed Princes
www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook64690.htm?cache
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com/

[crystalwizard]

I wouldn't recommend you sign a contract like that.

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!


<a href="http://flashingswords.sfreader.com" target="_blank">
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords</a>

Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print

[cussedness]

Since there is a decent escape clause, and I have print rights to all 20 of my novels, I have decided upon an experiment. I am going to bring out one series at createspace, one at lulu, and then bring out the books by the authors who have signed contracts with Daverana Enterprises through LSI. I will report on what happens in my forum here and on my blogs. It should be enough of a sample to make a fair comparison of everything involved, including quality. Doing it simultaneously, with each of them starting from the gate at the same time. If anyone wishes to make further suggestions to make this analysis better, let me know. I think that a six month trial ought to be enough time to give it.

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa?necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

The Shadowed Princes
www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook64690.htm?cache
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com/

[KreelanWarrior]

hey, all -

i've been experimenting myself a bit, as well, between Lulu, CreateSpace, and LSI. The gory details are on my site, but here's a gist of what's transpired thus far:

Lulu

while it might work for smaller books, longer ones like mine (680 pages) are a lost cause at Lulu for anything more than the Lulu marketplace. the retail cost of my book with a royalty of $1 per copy comes to $32.70 (fully 50% retailer discount), which is hardly competitive! LOL!

CreateSpace

this Amazon-owned alternative is certainly attractive for those who are interested only in getting onto Amazon (or using it as a multi-pronged publishing approach). while the aforementioned language in the contract is a potential gotcha, the pricing with a 40% discount to amazon is reasonable IF you get the pro plan - that costs $50 per title, but buys you a very reasonable royalty on Amazon. for example, with my book, at a retail price of $21.95 i couldn't even sell it on Amazon on the regular plan, as the royalty works out to MINUS $1.93. but under the pro plan it's a quite reasonable $3.48. i went ahead and ordered a proof copy to check it out: it wasn't quite as good as the one i got from Lightning Source, but was still quite nice. so CreateSpace remains my backup option to LSI.

Lightning Source

i checked with my sales rep at lightning source about the amazon 'disconnect,' and she reassured me that amazon remains one of their distribution partners and continues to accept titles for their catalog. so we'll see.

anyway, i got my cover and bookblock files set up, uploaded, and then ordered a proof copy. aside from a goof i made in the color (just submitted a revision for that), it looked great. crisper than the CreateSpace version, although a few pennies more expensive for the wholesale price (direct to publisher - you - is a bit more).

as an FYI, you CANNOT reliably use the same files for CreateSpace and LSI, at least if you're using creme paper for trade paperbacks (i can't verify any other paper/cover combination): the paper CreateSpace uses is noticeably thicker: in a 680 page novel, this worked out to about 1/4 inch more than the LSI version!

anyway, pricewise, i can put my book out at $19.95 retail on a 35% discount and make $3.23 in royalty. that's not enough of a discount to get it in many, if any, brick and mortar stores, but it's reasonable and should let Amazon and Barnes & Noble (online) discount the price down to something reasonably competitive. and, if fortune does blow my way, at least it's available through Ingram and Baker & Taylor (among others) if people want to order it from their local stores (not so with CreateSpace).

so, once i get the second proof copy back from LSI and - hopefully! - it looks good, it'll get released there, then i need to add the title to Books in Print. and *then* we'll see how long it takes to actually get into the Amazon catalog (or if I have to punt & go with CreateSpace for them, anyway)...

Author of In Her Name, a Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel now available on Mobipocket. Click here for a free excerpt!

[cussedness]

Excellent job! Great article!

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa?necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

The Shadowed Princes
www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook64690.htm?cache
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com/

[lin]

Somebody said...
You cannot offer the book somewhere else at a lower price, including special offers, than it is offered at amazon.

I find that rather amazing since I see LOTS of LSI books discounted, including my own.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here, though. LSI deals with publishers, small though they might be.

[crystalwizard]

This was a long time back too, but this had nothing to do with books being discounted by Amazon, it had to do with authors selling books from their own sites that were also on Amazon.

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