KANE recommendation

[jason]

Using this thread not to recommend, but to solicit recommendations about Kane. I've not read any of the stories or novels, and with them all out of print and the Night Shade collections either unavailable or way out of my price range, I was hoping for a suggestion as to the best paperback to start. Some say the short stories are better, others the novels, etc. but I want a book that I can form an opinion from--if this is going to be a character for me--without having to sink a ton on money into it.
Suggestions?

Jason Thummel

"The Importanceof Portents" The Town Drunk, February 2008
"A Stand in the Eye of the Needle" Flashing Swords, May 2008
"Mortismagus" in Magic and Mechanica, Ricasso Press Forthcoming 2008

[PaulMc]

Jason T said...
Using this thread not to recommend, but to solicit recommendations about Kane. I've not read any of the stories or novels, and with them all out of print and the Night Shade collections either unavailable or way out of my price range, I was hoping for a suggestion as to the best paperback to start. Some say the short stories are better, others the novels, etc. but I want a book that I can form an opinion from--if this is going to be a character for me--without having to sink a ton on money into it.
Suggestions?

When I was collecting them, Night Winds was the hardest and most expensive to find.

Dark Crusade is probably the easiest to find.

My personal favorites were Death Angel's Shadow (story collection) and Darkness Weaves (novel.)

-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

[nathan]

The three Kane novels I know about and have read are (and in this order of publication): Darkness Weaves, Bloodstone, Dark Crusade.


Now you can get all the short stories collected in the night shade anthology (unless they're's some I don't know about). I paid a nice bit to get the new hardcover. I'm willing to bet (but haven't looked) you can it for pretty reasonable on Amazon Used--and the novels as well.


For my money a few of the shorts are brilliant. Most are good.


My favorite Kane is the first book Darkness Weaves.


In Darkness Weaves you have Byronic Hero on anabolic steriods. And meth. It sets the tone for who Kane is how cynically dark his world is and how he fits as a character in Sword & Sorcery. I really really liked this book and think it a good jumping off point.


But you should jump off to the short stories 'cause IMO over all they're better.


I read Bloodstone at 12. It confused me at the time because I didn't know what a gothic hero was. I felt compelled to keep turning the pages as Kane used murder, alien technology, and demonic summoning to unfold a meglomanical plan. But at 12 I couldn't figure out why the story seemed to have the villian (Kane) in the protaganist role and the hero (the knight and defender of the kingdom) in the antagonist role.


10 years later I got it and became a big Kane fan. But after Darkness Weaves you'll find more "gems" in the short stories and novellas. I really liked the one where Kane and Elric team up to---never mind, I'll let you read it.
Kane's my favorite. But he's no Robert Jordon style hero, just so you know.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[PaulMc]

nathan said...
I really liked the one where Kane and Elric team up to---never mind, I'll let you read it.

Should be noted - that tale, 'The Gothic Touch', isn't in the paperbacks. It was only in the hardcover Tales of the White Wolf (and Elric story collection written by various authors--not Moorcock, though it had his approval.) I found that relatively cheap and available, considering it was a hardcover. But I digress because that's an Elric anthology not a Kane collection. It's also in the Nightshade collection.

Happy hunting!

-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

[Christopher_Heath]

I thought all the Kane writings were brilliant, save those set in the modern era, which I felt were of a much lower quality. My favorite of novels in order are: Darkness Weaves, Bloodstone, Dark Crusade. They all rock, but Dark Crusade just ends weird, and kind of an anti-climactic ending to an otherwise masterful piece of work. Seems it ended several chapters early with no concrete resolution. Most of the short stories are brilliant. Really, just pick something and go with it, because you can't go wrong (save for the modern era short stories).

Christopher M. Heath

"Azieran: Kaiburr the Rotund" in Silly Fantasy Anthology by CyberAliens
"Azieran: Claimed by Birthright" in Return of the Sword by Flashing Swords Press
"Azieran: Oathbreaker's Promise" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: The Hollow Kings" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: Adairos" in Tower of Light Fantasy
"Azieran: Savior in a Flask" in Magic and Mechanica by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Travelers Four" in Black Dragon, White Dragon by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Breaking of Hell's Bones" in Black Sails by 1018 Press
"Azieran: Distilling the Essence" in Sails and Sorcery by Fantasist Enterprises
"Azieran: Crestfallen in Mal'kyrrik" serialized novella in Forgotten Worlds


+ others

[nathan]

You know Chris now that you mention it you're right about DC's ending. As I recall the excellant--one of my favorites and I think one of the top stories overall--novella in the Midnight Sun (Night Shade) collection, "Reflections For The Winter Of My Soul" is set right after DC. That is you could set DC down and pick up Winter and continue reading--though Winter is self contained.


I agree about the modern Kane stories as well. Whatever his intentions KEW just didn't pull those off, IMO.


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[jason]

Thanks for the advice gents. It sounds like Darkness Weaves is consistently ranked at the top, so it might be a good place to start. I called around, none of the used paperback stores in the area have any KEW books at all.The paperbacks listed on Amazon seemed to have pretty reasonable prices since I'm not looking for excellent condition.


nathan: looks like those night shade anthologies are a good investment. On Amazon one--the short story collection I believe--wasn't available and the complete novel collection had a low asking price of something akin to $188.00. So that's never going to happen.


Anyway, I appreciate the feedback.


Jason Thummel

"The Importanceof Portents" The Town Drunk, February 2008
"A Stand in the Eye of the Needle" Flashing Swords, May 2008
"Mortismagus" in Magic and Mechanica, Ricasso Press Forthcoming 2008

[PaulMc]

nathan said...
You know Chris now that you mention it you're right about DC's ending. As I recall the excellant--one of my favorites and I think one of the top stories overall--novella in the Midnight Sun (Night Shade) collection, 'Reflections For The Winter Of My Soul' is set right after DC. That is you could set DC down and pick up Winter and continue reading--though Winter is self contained.

Dark Crusade to 'Reflections For The Winter of My Soul' are the most directly connected (time wise) of the Kane stories. KEW said, in general, thousands of years pass between the various stories. But those two are only a few years apart, as I recall.

If you check the front pieces of Dark Crusade, it's clear that the last chapter is actually a self-contained short story that was published previously that KEW worked into the novel. I like it, but there are parts of Dark Crusade that feel a bit cobbled together. Almost like he was fighting to reach the wordcount.

Good stuff, anyway!

-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

[Christopher_Heath]

'the complete novel collection had a low asking price of something akin to $188.00. So that's never going to happen.'

I was on ebay a few years back poking around, and saw Gods in Darkness for under $20. It was out of print at that time as well, and highly sought and came with a high price tag. I hadn't read Dark Crusade at the time, so figured I'd be picking up a crappy copy. I figured it'd be worth the money just to read the one novel. It showed up in very nice condition, looks as though never read. Not mint, but only a small wrinkle on the back cover. Quite a bargain. Then a friend picked up a beater paperback copy of Dark Crusade, so I borrowed that and left the hardback unread.

Christopher M. Heath

"Azieran: Kaiburr the Rotund" in Silly Fantasy Anthology by CyberAliens
"Azieran: Claimed by Birthright" in Return of the Sword by Flashing Swords Press
"Azieran: Oathbreaker's Promise" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: The Hollow Kings" in Flashing Swords
"Azieran: Adairos" in Tower of Light Fantasy
"Azieran: Savior in a Flask" in Magic and Mechanica by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Travelers Four" in Black Dragon, White Dragon by Ricasso Press
"Azieran: The Breaking of Hell's Bones" in Black Sails by 1018 Press
"Azieran: Distilling the Essence" in Sails and Sorcery by Fantasist Enterprises
"Azieran: Crestfallen in Mal'kyrrik" serialized novella in Forgotten Worlds


+ others

[nathan]

PaulMc said...

nathan said...
I really liked the one where Kane and Elric team up to---never mind, I'll let you read it.

Should be noted - that tale, "The Gothic Touch", isn't in the paperbacks. It was only in the hardcover Tales of the White Wolf (and Elric story collection written by various authors--not Moorcock, though it had his approval.) I found that relatively cheap and available, considering it was a hardcover. But I digress because that's an Elric anthology not a Kane collection. It's also in the Nightshade collection.

Happy hunting!


Do you know if they're are stories in Night Winds that don't appear in Midnight Sun (the Night Shade collection)? I have the Midnight Sun but have never even seen the Night Winds collection.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[PaulMc]

nathan said...

Do you know if there are stories in Night Winds that don't appear in Midnight Sun (the Night Shade collection)? I have the Midnight Sun but have never even seen the Night Winds collection.

All the Kane short stories are in Midnight Sun, including the contents of Night Winds. The only thing you're missing is a nice Frazetta cover. [img]/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

[PaulMc]

nathan said...
As I recall the excellent--one of my favorites and I think one of the top stories overall--novella in the Midnight Sun (Night Shade) collection, 'Reflections For The Winter Of My Soul' is set right after DC.

Worth noting for Jason:

'Reflections For The Winter Of My Soul' was the first Kane I ever read and it blew me away. I could feel the cold in my bones when Kane was lost in the blizzard.

That was originally in (the aforementioned) Death's Angel's Shadow, which is pretty much why it's my favorite of the two paperback short collections.

-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

[darkbow]

Oh, man. You guys. Now I've got to run home after work and break out Night Winds.

www.tyjohnston.blogspot.com

http://radiodarkbow.blogspot.comTwo songs a day, every day.

"Hot Off the Press" Ray Gun Revival #25, 2007.

"Deep in the Land of the Ice and Snow" in the Flashing Swords anthology, "The Return of the Sword."

[Kainja]

Night Winds is absolutely terrific. I bought it originally as a paperback. Later I bought the collections from Night Shade books,

Gods in Darkness, which is the complete Kane novels
Midnight Sun, the complete Kane short stories.

Can't really go wrong with Wagner

Charles Gramlich
http://charlesgramlich.blogspot.com/

[jason]

Thanks again. Just ordered 'acceptable' reading copies--translates "cheap and beatbut serviceable" I would imagine--of Darkness Weaves and Death Angel's Shadow.


Those Night Shade collections seem to be pretty rare and/or expensive. I wonder if they'll ever do a reprint.


Thanks again for the input.


Jason Thummel

"The Importanceof Portents" The Town Drunk, February 2008
"A Stand in the Eye of the Needle" Flashing Swords, May 2008
"Mortismagus" in Magic and Mechanica, Ricasso Press Forthcoming 2008

[nathan]

Reprint hell. Nightshade owns Kane. When are we going to get some new Kane stuff!

Well, I hope they do reprints as well to keep Kane knowledge alive--but I'd love to see somebody bring us more Kane adventures.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[PaulMc]

nathan said...
Reprint hell. Nightshade owns Kane. When are we going to get some new Kane stuff!

Well, I hope they do reprints as well to keep Kane knowledge alive--but I'd love to see somebody bring us more Kane adventures.

Probably won't ever happen. KEW's family owns his literary estate and are very guarded with it and really don't want anyone doing pastiches.

While new well-done adventures would be grand, the risk of Kane becoming a Conan franchise would bother me. The authors who 'get it' are good to great. But some of the TOR Conan authors never understood Howard or the Hyborian Age and instead created races and characters more fitting to Dungeons and Dragons adventures than Conan tales.

It is a shame KEW never got further with Kane. Some of the hints and fragments--was Kane a genetically engineered soldier, created by an alien race of 'gods'? The idea of Kane being a side character in the novel In the Wake of the Night--I wonder if KEW was inspired by Jason and the Argonauts (you know, where Herakles was just another sailor on board)?

A real pity we won't ever know--even if there are pastiches using the nuggets, no one but KEW really knew Kane's entire story.

I guess that's how it is for any author who creates a body of work surrounding a central character.

-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

[nathan]

You're right, a franchise does open us up to risk. A carefully cultivated choice, like getting Joe Lansdale to finish the last ERB Tarzan manuscript would be great.

But yeah, it could go bad.

At 6' tall and 300lbs of muscle I could see the argument for a gen-soldier. But I always thought KEW as a MD just wrote Kane with A LOT of testosterone, lol. There's a certain thumb in the eye of him being Cain Kane. I don't know. KEW seemed to be attempting a reinvention of Kane in his (KEW's) later years.

It could have happened.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

[PaulMc]

nathan said...
At 6' tall and 300lbs of muscle I could see the argument for a gen-soldier. But I always thought KEW as a MD just wrote Kane with A LOT of testosterone, lol. There's a certain thumb in the eye of him being Cain Kane.

Just theorizing - but I figured it wasn't just Kane's physique but also the fact that he doesn't age - but he can be killed by violence. Maybe genetic engineering gave him a body that won't wear out but it's not invulnerable to weaponry.

Anyway, I wouldn't even call it my theory - I sort get that implication from Dale Rippke's Phantasmal Tomes.

Kane as a retelling of Paradise Lost? I could see that - especially if Paradise was an alien planet and KEW really delved into the science-fantasy aspects.

Or maybe it would have been more supernatural, but with spaceships and the lost/ hidden technologies already appearing in the Kane stories, I would guess it was more sci-fantasy.

But, then again, I'm not KEW.

-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

[che2000]

One of the reasons why I like this forum so much is that threads like this send me scurrying back to the bookshelf with a wonderful feeling of: 'ooh, I really must read that again, it's been months/years since I last did'.

Just finished re-reading 'Cold Light' - man, what a great story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"That blackguard Flashman, who never speaks to one without a kick or an oath--"

[Kainja]

I personally like the characterization of Kane as the 'Cain' from the Bible. This is, in my opinion, much more of an original concept than the 'genetic soldier' idea that Karl seemed to be toying with toward the end of his life. I did a long article on this which will eventually see print.

As for pastiches, I think I'd prefer there not be any. Sure, I'd like to see more about Kane, but not at the expense of him becoming a pastiche 'Conan' character. Man, some of the Conan pastiches really did a number on the character.

Charles Gramlich
http://charlesgramlich.blogspot.com/

[Kane]

[quote]

PaulMc said...

Just theorizing - but I figured it wasn't just Kane's physique but also the fact that he doesn't age - but he can be killed by violence. Maybe genetic engineering gave him a body that won't wear out but it's not invulnerable to weaponry.

While I cannot recall the title off the top of my head, there was one story where Kane does die. He's completely drained by a vampire. When he recovers she, the vampire, is surprised that Kane is neither dead or a vampire.

The concept of an engineered soldier is appealing. Still, given the use of magic throughout the series, I would not rule out the possibility that Kane was a created lifeform that combined both genetics and magic. Because he was a living combination of both, it would not be beyond belief that his death could only come about from very percise damage to his inner structure. The kind of damage that could only be achived by running a couple of feet of cold steel through the heart, lungs, and spine. Possibly grounding out the magics that kept him going?




You say God's spark has kindled my eye,
As the sun-rise reddens the east;
Into your beards I roar the lie-
'Tis the gleam of the stalking beast.
Robert E. Howard

[nathan]

Technically, as Karl wrote it he could have been both. Kane was Cain but the God was always a mad god and there was always a mix of super science and magic right from the get go.

I have a hunch it would have amused KEW greatly to say that Kane was Cain and that he was a gen-commando because God was an alien. Still the first stories had much more of a "cast out" feel about Kane's past than a "escaped from facility".

He was also already starting to feel the insanity of his long life by the time he appears in his pre-history world so he could be an 'unreliable narrator' as well if KEW wanted to ret-con him.

Still, I kind of like him the way I got to know him best, as Cain driven into Nod.




VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."