DIY with staples and cutters

[Nathan Jerpe]

Don't know if this is the best thread for this...

I'm looking to do a small print run (100 copies?)for a book(let?) I'm finishing up. Suffice to say I have some unusual requirements that I doubt Lulu, CafePress, and other PODs can meet. Basically I'd like the thing to look somewhat like an old Avalon Hill game manual from the 1970's, or an old RPG sourcebook. Maybe even a zine, though it will be longer than a zine.

So I'm considering taking more of a DIY approach, replete with staples if need be! I figuredthere may be craftsmen round here that have done a little of this, and are willing to share their experiences. I'm willing to buy some second-hand equipment if I need to, and I am fairly knowledgeable in Microsoft Word. When it comes to more professional packages like Quark though I haven't the faintest clue.

And for what it's worth, what do you think the page limit would be for a stapled guidebook/manual/whatever? Suppose it turned out to beover ahundred pages, do you think it would still hold together?

Thanks!
Nathan

http://roguelikefiction.com

[crystalwizard]

You do NOT want to try and hand staple a book together if you're doing saddlestich, which is what you described. That requires a special stapler and I doubt you want to buy one for a print run of 100.

For a book like that, you're limited by the thickness of the paper and I think everyone stops at 72 pages.

You didn't say what your unusual requirements are. It's hard to advise you without knowing that.

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!


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[Nathan Jerpe]

Oh, for the unusual requirements I just meant the whole Avalon Hill game manual / RPG sourcebook thing. There's a boardgame by them called Wizards; thatrulebook is sort of illustrative of what I want. It was a sixteen page instruction booklet, stapled, lots of information packed inside, two columns to a page with some figures and/or diagrams. Black and white inside and out. Not so much a cover as a front page with a nice illustration. Paper waspretty lightweight, around 8.5 x 11 per page. Mine would be longer than sixteen pages, but I think a lot of the parallels would still hold.

Maybe it is not so unusual, now that I think about it

Saddlestitch is the term for using staples, then? I figured there would be stitching involved.

Thank you for the prompt response!







http://roguelikefiction.com

[crystalwizard]

Lulu can do exactly what you want. Just choose saddlestitch instead of perfect.

Saddlestich can be either staples or thread. For what you're doing, it'll be staples.

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!


<a href="http://flashingswords.sfreader.com" target="_blank">
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords</a>

Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print

[DAWaverly]

Or for just 100 copies, you might want to check out a local printer, Printex or the like...

- Deven
Blogtide Rising

[carnifexpress]

I started Carnifex Press in January 2005 with my own printer, a long stapler and a cutter and doing the first 'Clash of Steel' and 'Revenant' books on my own before hooking up with my printer... it can be done, but it was a pain in the butt to get it right, especially when you first start doing it... lots of wasted pages and copies... it might just be more realistic to find a printer that will do short runs for you like I found... God bless her...

Armand Rosamilia

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[lin]

I have printed and sold many, many thousands of books this way for several decades.

You need to find somebody to do the cutting with a power cutter, not the blade kind. Trimming the 'shingle'--the part of the book that sticks out in a triangular stack when it's folded--is a pain in the neck. I once did a short run in which the shingle trim almost doubled the cost of the book.
Without trimming the shingle you end up with this tapered abortion that looks completely amateur.

While talking to them, see what they'd charge to do the stapling, as well.

Printing a book this way is MUCH cheaper than lulu, actually.

[Jaqhama]

You can always buy a spiral binding machine.

We've got one at work.
I've used it to bind some of my longer stories, complete with pics on the front and back covers.

Just a bit of fun, but ideal as gifts for friends and family.

Even a good idea to submit sample chapters to a potential agent.

Cheers: Jaq.

The Jaqzone:
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[crystalwizard]

I just really really want a saddle stitch stapler.

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[lin]

The comb bindings are miles better. But useless for commercial purposes.

I make books with a standard swingline stapler, but I deepened the throat with a hacksaw so it reaches to the middle of a standard sheet.

Am I the only one who thinks that the standard size stapler not being able to reach to the middle of the standard sheet of paper indicates some really major stupidity?

[Nathan Jerpe]

lin said...
I have printed and sold many, many thousands of books this way for several decades.

Gee I'd like to be able to do that. How many separate titles would you guess overall? A few dozen titles at a hundred copies apiece? Or a few hundred titles at a dozen copies apiece?

In any case I'd like to hear more about your experiences. FWIW I managed to hook up with a great printer in Atlanta and was able to do perfect-bound for my first project, pretty cheap. I enjoyed it enough that I'd be willing for a second go-round on another title, or something.

http://roguelikefiction.com

[lin]

Mostly what I am talking about is sales of my bread-and-butter book, MEXICAN SLANG 101.

It works by dominating a very narrow niche... people interested in learning, or at least laughing about, Spanish slang as spoken in Latin America and US barrios.

That would be the book from the banner below. (DO check out the video!) But it has sold a LOT more in stores and on the beach. It's been my only or main source of income at several point in time and currently pays my rent.

It has always been a photocopy production, allowing for very small runs. (That method is limited to how many page you can fold and staple, though. This one is 80 pages, meaning 20 sheets to staple, plus cover.

I envision a project this winter using perfect bound, printed novels... again, working a niche. Nice way to go, but you have to have a lot of capital up front and a place to store all those books. One thing nice about MEXICAN SLANG 101 is that I can fly in someplace with nothing but a folder of orignals (lately, a file on my flash drive, and my modified stapler (the last three printings I had the printer do the stapling because they were over 1000 runs) and be in business within days.

[lin]

I used the same process to produce an inexpensive, 'City Lights' style, line of poetry in Seattle in the seventies. Made money on it, but nothing like the career of the slang book.

People who deride self-publishing as 'vanity publishing' or 'hobby' by the way, are unaware of the fact that there are people who make good money doing it.

-- A friend of mine produces a run of about a thousand books every year and sells it out at $400 a copy. It's basically 'how to cheat on mid-level corporate taxes'.

--I knew a guy who was making $600 a month selling a book produced as cheaply as mine, by more or less the same process--but selling for $25 a copy. It was essentially a guide to whore houses in the Domincan Republic. I was doing a story about him for Hustler when he suddenly disappeared. I kind of think it had to do with him ridiculing a local police colonel in the book and bragging about screwing local high school girls. True tale.

--Another guy I know makes a six figure income selling self--produced manuals on setting up LLC companies.

There are possiblities in this, but you have to be aware of a major concept: NICHE RULES

[SilviaMG]

Yeah. It's niche and non-fiction rule.

I've worked on a legal book, printing a run of about 1,000 for my job and they sell well. But we've got a captive audience and of course it's niche and non-fiction. Fiction's a different story.

Silvia's online at silviamoreno-garcia.com

[lin]

'Niche' doesn't necessarily mean non-fiction. I'm planning a narrow-niche fiction project righ now for this winter.

Here's a hint at what I mean. Let's say you live in Niagara Falls. You work at a hotel gift shop, your family runs a souvenir store or bed and breakfast.

You write a romance thriller about honeymooners stumbling into a murder plot at a Niagara Falls B@B, print it up and saturate the area with it. Niche fiction.

You live near a beach resort, better yet: people like books at the beach.

Now, let's say you live near Cape Kennedy.....

[BitterHermit]

I use a Bostich Booklet Stapler (model B440SB) that cost me about $30. Works great on prefolded letter paper. I have a longer stapler (B44OLR) for legal, though it's not as reliable/consistent and can't use it on prefolded sheets very well. Actually, the SB does work on prefolded legal (I just checked). Problem there is finding legal-size paper worthy of covers . . .
I got a trimmer on Ebay about 4 years ago. Cost about $340 plus $86 shipping. Great for edging off them shingles!
I usually stick to about 12-16 sheets of 24# paper plus the cover. That gives you 44-60 pages of text and four pages for front and back matter.
I set mine up in MS Publisher - because otherwise I can't figure out the pages & spreads thing without a lot of trouble and cursing and the dog wetting himself to stay out of my way . . .

Poetry Blog: www.fringemonkey.org
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Copyeditor and Writing Coach for hire (PM me)
Poetry Collection Co-authored with Sio --
After the Vows: Poems Between Lovers

[lin]

I hear you. I use Word, a dummy, and the cursing and dog wetting route.

(I'm pretty good at making dummies. I'm thinking of writing 'A Dummy's Guide To Dummies')

The last thing I did REALLY drove me gaga. A pdf document for the printer composed of jpg images. I ended up exporting word documents to PDF, then clipping pages out and making jpg graphics of them, the putting them back together in a pdf for printing. In a word, ARGHHHH.

I did take the chance to try something, though, since I as going to files rather than paper originals: I doubled up the pages. (I print mostly 'half sized', pocket sized books) So two books print out at once, one above the other. Which means the shingle can be trimmed for two at once, then cut in half later.

Ay... there's a lot to be said for eBooks, all right.

[BitterHermit]

Cool! I did the pocket-sized book thing as well. It came out pretty well, actually. Best use I could find for it was advertising . . .

Poetry Blog: www.fringemonkey.org
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Copyeditor and Writing Coach for hire (PM me)
Poetry Collection Co-authored with Sio --
After the Vows: Poems Between Lovers

[lin]

In addition to my slang book, I've done a couple of series of poetry with it.
These additions from Adoro used the format at my suggestion (which meant I was kind of obliged to do the setup work for the first one, hence the digital travail)