Is it worth it?

[Scott M. Sandridge]

Yeah, I know.

[Thetinman]

IMO, in today's market it's near impossible to get recognized as an author unless you are a brilliant writer - akin to a shop floor grunt becoming CEO in a corp. With the flood of talented but laid off writers, reporters, and professionals writing -hobby turned necessity - and adding to this, the mix of laid off regular Joes and Janes thinking that writing is the perfect thing now that they're laid off, the slush pile is huge. Even fantastic stuff is thrown away, simply because it's buried.
I would say get your work out everywhere, but not free. Publishing houses see sales. Get your stuff out everywhere, advertise, get a website...if possible, provide a free or next to free book that will get people talking with links and ads to your serious work.
Keep in mind that this comes from a newbie, but one that has done some research. As an example, I wrote a book that people describe as pee in your pants hilarious. It is 99 cents. It has links to my website- www.pauldaytonscifi.com and has 20,000 words of my serious work, an almost complete and satisfactory sub-story added in from "We've Seen the Enemy", with more links to my work. I've seen increased traffic already and I've just started listing it.
In today's flood of work, you have to pull out all the stops to get noticed and get your name known, or you will be buried.

[Richard H. Fay]

I'm starting to think NONE OF IT is worth it, since the publication industry is apparently an industry that will just as soon kick you in the crotch as reward quality and hard work. What matters more, what you get published, how much you get published, where you get it published, or dumb luck?

Maybe that's the real truth of this always crazy, oftentimes sick, game called writing for publication.

[Casey]

Can somebody tell me which markets will cause a writer's rep to take a nose dive? It's not always easy to figure out which magazines are on the scorned list.

That's certainly a slippery slope. There are plenty of markets that leave a sour taste in my mouth when I read them in a cover letter, but I'm hesitant to call them out publicly. The best way to figure it out would be to read their work, a good practice to do before submitting to any market. Any investment in your writing career is worth a little research. If you like what you read there, submit. More importantly, tell other people about it to boost their reputation.

Overall, my opinions are the same as SilviaMG's comments, with a few extra comments.

"Are all markets worth placing in?"

No.

"Are there certain types of markets that just don't add anything to or even detract from your reputation as a writer when your work appears in them?"

Presentation is a plus for me. But the evidence of quality editing is more important. Unless you're a well experienced professional writer, expect an editor's influence. I'd find any market that doesn't seem to have helpful suggestions highly suspect. I don't even expect contracts to be returned until after the first round of edits.

"Do you appear desperate for publication? I would think it depends on your work but maybe I'm naive."

As SilviaMG stated, a cover letter really should just highlight your best work. If you're unsure about any of your pubs, don't include them.

[Rob K]

Casey,

There are magazines that leave a sour taste in your mouth? Wow, that's powerful stuff. I can't think of a single magazine that inspires such feelings in me. There are plenty that I won't submit to, for this reason or that, but I don't experience a sour taste when I see their names listed. Doesn't that make it kind of tough for a writer who doesn't know your personal tastes (no pun intended)? I mean, that sounds like a big strike against a writer. Isn't there some way you can let writers in on it, so they don't have to submit with the scales already tilted against them?

[Samuel Mae]

I've only skimmed through the thread, so i apologize if what i'm about to say has already been covered.

Apart from agreeing with the general 'yes, there are markets that are not worth placing in' i also am selective of which markets i include in a cover letter depending on who i'm submitting to. For example, if i'm subbing to a pro mag, i'll only include other pro or highly respected markets i've sold to in the cover letter. If i don't have those markets to include i'll just send in with no credits in the covering letter.

I also write under a couple different pennames, and i've found it easier to keep them separate (as in, credits for one penname don't get mentioned when subbing under a different penname), even though i sign off all my correspondence with my real name.

[Ramon Rozas]

"Do you appear desperate for publication...?

Of course I'm freaking desperate! I'm a writer of short science fiction!

[Richard H. Fay]

Of course I'm freaking desperate! I'm a writer of short science fiction!

If you think you're desperate being a writer of short science fiction, try being a writer of dark speculative poetry!

[crystalwizard]

>If you think you're desperate being a writer of short science fiction, try being a writer of dark speculative poetry!

Hah!

You think you're desperate? At least you guys have time to write! Try being an editor. I'd love to have the time to write something I could be desperate to get published!

[Richard H. Fay]

>If you think you're desperate being a writer of short science fiction, try being a writer of dark speculative poetry!

Hah!

You think you're desperate? At least you guys have time to write! Try being an editor. I'd love to have the time to write something I could be desperate to get published!

I only have time to write (and draw) because I have no day job. Yeah, I'm a starving artist sponging off my wife, hoping I can turn this publication thing into more than just a hobby (fat chance of that happening any time soon).

Time spent writing takes time away from drawing. I got to work on a few stories and poems over the past couple of weeks, but only because I took a break from art. I'm going to have to go back to working on art soon, so that means my writing will once again suffer.

That's okay, I'm a little less desperate, and a little more confident, when it comes to my art. I have to get back to art because i have requested projects to do (which, CW, you know already).

As for editing? Not for me. I figure editing would take even more time away from art and writing, time I can't really spare. I know enough to know that editing can be a time-consuming task, and that it can take time away from other things.

[MrsCogan]

you might, but those of us on this side of the desk don't want it.

if you're famous, we don't need your background.
If you're not, we don't care about your background.

we only need your background when we're ready to put your bio into the book we're publishing or when we're creating marketing materials for that book.

I think you might be selling yourself short with this. Even if someone isn't famous they can still have a fan base. In discussions about favorite authors I usually say "Jim Butcher." 100% of the time everyone in hearing says "Who?" "He writes the Dresden Files" I explain. "The what?" they reply. Butcher isn't famous outside a few tight circles but he has a HUGE fan base. Every writer has a fan base. As an editor what you need to know is how big it is because those are your customers. That's what the writing credits are for. I agree they should be kept short, though.

I only have time to write (and draw) because I have no day job. Yeah, I'm a starving artist sponging off my wife, hoping I can turn this publication thing into more than just a hobby (fat chance of that happening any time soon).

Time spent writing takes time away from drawing. I got to work on a few stories and poems over the past couple of weeks, but only because I took a break from art. I'm going to have to go back to working on art soon, so that means my writing will once again suffer.

That's okay, I'm a little less desperate, and a little more confident, when it comes to my art. I have to get back to art because i have requested projects to do (which, CW, you know already).

As for editing? Not for me. I figure editing would take even more time away from art and writing, time I can't really spare. I know enough to know that editing can be a time-consuming task, and that it can take time away from other things.

I have the same problem, but it's art that suffers. Editing is VITAL. If you don't edit, you shouldn't bother to write.

[Richard H. Fay]

I have the same problem, but it's art that suffers. Editing is VITAL. If you don't edit, you shouldn't bother to write.

Eh, what?

I'm not talking the revising or the editing of one's own work, I'm talking the editing of the works of others. Considering how I just revised a story I've been circulating, and I revise struggling poems on occasion, I think I understand the values of self-editing. However, I would have to be offered enough to make it worth my while to be any sort of zine editor on a regular basis. Besides, my tastes and preferences tend to be awfully narrow, which might just be reflected in my editorial choices if I were an editor.

Are you trying to tell me that you can't be a publish writer if you don't also edit, as in be an editor or co-editor of a publication? I hope not, because that sounds like rubbish.

I've seen too many twists put on the definition of "writer" already to also put up with that one as well!

I have given people feedback on their writing, especially poetry, and I've done favours for a few of my editor and publisher friends on rare occasions, but that's pretty much it. And that's how I want to keep it, at least for now.

I have too much of my own writing (poetry, articles, and now even some stories) to work on, and art to do, to get wrapped up in editing as well. I don't envy Crystalwizard her position at all, in terms of the time drain it must surely be.

In my case, I would rather be drawing or writing than editing or co-editing a zine. Is that so "un-writerly" of me?

Even if someone isn't famous they can still have a fan base.

I've been told that I have fans, but seeing as how I'm basically a lil' ole speculative poet still spending most of my time wading in the kiddie pool of genre publications, I'm not sure I really believe it. It's probably a fan base consisting of all of five people, one of them being my mother-in-law (she has a collection of all the print publications my works have appeared in so far).

Heck, my wife doesn't even necessarily count, because she merely tolerates my poetry (she's not much of a fan of poetry).

Then again, I did have that college student who read my poem in one of her classes, and I know of at least one fellow dark poet who claims (or once claimed, anyway) that I am one of his two favourite poets.

Going back to the idea of "is is worth it?" for a moment...

This may not have anything to do with earning a reputation or building a name for oneself as a writer or poet, and it might not even be something to mention when mentioning publication credits, but I do know of at least one instance where submitting to a "4 the luv" zine may potentially lead to earning a bit of money.

Fairly recently, I had a poem that appeared in an issue of a certain "4 the luv" horror zine picked to be in their "Best of 2010" anthology. This particular venue doesn't pay for material published in the monthly zine, but does have a royalty scheme in place for works picked for inclusion in the best of anthologies.

So, I may earn a few bucks royalty, and I certainly earned another publication in a "best of anthology", because I submitted a poem to a zine that some people may feel wasn't worth subbing to. (I could potentially earn more moola for this poem than I've earned for any other poem up to this point. If I'm REAL lucky, it could draw near pro-sales territory.)

In case anyone is wondering, I may just add that "best of" publication to the credits I mention when I mention publication credits in a cover letter (usually when I'm sending poetry submissions to new or untried markets). However, more typically, I just say something general like "my dark speculative poetry has appeared in various print magazines, e-zines, and anthologies, including: Bleepity Bleep, Bloppity Blop, Blah Blah, Bloo Bloo, and So On. I mix up the specific venues mentioned every so often, just to be different.