What happened to the regular SFR posters then?

[Jaqhama]

It's noticable that ever since Dave, our esteemed webmaster, reconfigured SFR onto a new forum board service that the regular posters that graced SFR for years have mostly disappeared.
The interesting and spirited discussions we all used to have have gone the way of the dodo.

I'm kind of curious as to why?

Is it because most of the discussions revolved around the small press and magazine market...and many small presses and magazines have disappeared in recent times?

I feel bad for Dave because he funds SFR out of his own pocket and changed to a new forum board that would allow him (and us) to have a lot more posting tools to play with.

But it appears to have been for nought.

A forum is only as good as the people who post up on it.
I admit I haven't been very active here myself in the months past, but it's hard to be active when so few are posting up anything to discuss or comment on.

Cheers: Jaq.

[Dungeoneer]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have always lurked and observed much more than I've participated. This is mostly because I have limited experience and feel I have little of relevence to contribute to the conversations that interest me. And when I do feel I have a contribution, usually someone else has already shared what little I could have supplied...and usually worded it better than I would have.

[che2000]

I, too, have been doing more lurking than posting of late. Maybe we need a controvertial statement or two just to get folks talking again... or maybe (and less liable to induce the use of the Caps Lock) just to start chatting about the business of writing again to bring the various writers around here out of the woodwork.

[Jaqhama]

Tim...I think you're too modest mate. I remember when I first signed up to SFR and you gave me that great welcome as you'd read my stories over at P&D. That was really great!
I like your blog site by the way. Green Sentinel and Planet X. Bring on the pulp.

Che...Yes, perhaps we do need to start some topical topics.

[jason]

I'm usually a lurker as well and have limited internet time, so I've never been a regular poster. The livliest discussions I recall, and this is going to vary depending on when one came into the forum, seemed to be with a core of folks that were involved with the original incarnation of Flashing Swords Magazine. When that went under, many seemed to drift away. Folks like John Hocking, James Enge, Steve Goble, Nathan Meyer, Rob Santa, Howard Jones, and Michael Turner are the ones that brought me into this forum originally, and although I know most are still active in the genre, I don't see too much activity in forums, etc. Granted, the internet is an awfully large place. I also have to wonder about the impact of other media such as twitter and facebook. I do think that markets (or a lack thereof) are a contributing aspect as well--as you mentioned.

[Dungeoneer]

Jaqhama--LOL, thanx! That's a little different, tho. They say that if you want to write, you have to read...a lot! Well, I don't read as much I ought to. And when I started hanging out here, there were an awful lot of names that I just didn't recognize (no offense meant to anyone here!). So when you showed up, I was like "Hey! I know that guy! I heard of him! He wrote this nifty thing I just read on the other site!" Combined with how cool I thought "Jet Bike Boogie" was, well, I kinda dropped all pretense of decorum and reverted to fanboy-mode. I try not to do that too often, cuz I find the whole "fanboy" thing kind of annoying when you're on the recieving end.

But I was actually talking about some of the weird and complex discussions that have gone on here. Things like "why de Camp doesn't write Conan as well as Howard". Apparently I am the unlearned type cuz I think to myself "Wait, I've read Conan stories by both of them and didn't really notice a difference. Is there something wrong with me or are these guys just looking at these things too closely?" My conclusion: probably both. :P (Of course, apparently you can't go by what I think in this case--I liked BOTH Conan movies AND Red Sonja!)

Now there were a couple of threads about developing plots or characters that I either had a comment or question to post, but somebody else beat me to it. But we've had those discussions now and there's really no reason to do them over cuz they're in the archives someplace.

And there have been discussions about how this genre or that genre don't get no respect. Or how the trends of this genre have changed since Grand Master X was writing in it, and where we think its going, how bad an idea we think it is, and how soon do we think it'll straighten itself out. Well, I can't contribute much to things like that, cuz I don't follow it. I write the sort of stuff that I want to write, then pout quietly to myself when nobody is willing to take it, and wait until my kind of stuff becomes "fashionable" again.

Sometimes there's a thread discussing an author's books, and how he did this, or made that work. But if it's an author who's stuff I haven't read, I don't have an valid information or an opinion, so I try not to clutter up anyone's serious discussion with dumb comments. Cuz, you know, its better to stand there and look dumb than to open your mouth and prove it.

But I do agree that most of the real movers and shakers of the Big Discussions around here have been absent, and for quite some time. And now that Jason brings it up, all of those movers and shakers seemed to have a connection to Flashing Swords... But then, weren't these forums originally started up by Sword and Sorcery.org and Flashing Swords? That was my impression, though I could be wrong. But with FS on indefinite hiatus, I guess it makes sense that the major players are, too.

On a more personal note...
Oh wow! You saw my little teaser for Harrowing Adventures? I gotta get some concept/teaser art up on the site and start promoting the address. I guess I'd better get around to it pretty soon, too, since I'm hoping to start posting comic pages next month.

[Dave]

Hey Jaq

I've been wondering a while as to the reasons behind the steady decline in SFReader forum participation, but I'm not sure there's any way to figure it out. There are more opportunities than ever with the new forum for people to be heard, but none of that seems to be used. Maybe the new forum functionality is simply too much, yet I know of other vBulletin installs that are rife with activity and members.

I suppose we'll get another opportunity to observe if it can be turned around however, since I recently contracted with a vBulletin expert to revamp the whole deal...

I though fans and others would kind of like a place to sell spec fic related stuff, just like I thought they'd like to have a free blog, or earn rewards, or get forum posts promoted to articles, thank people, earn reputation, rate articles, reviews and threads... all the things that seem to go on elsewhere but have never taken root here.

I'm down to 2 reviewers now, although CW is trying to recruit more, so I imagine it won't be long before book reviews stop as well.

It takes a community. People willing to accept free books and write reviews, or dash off a review of a movie he or she just saw, or a volunteer to list upcoming conventions on the calendar, or for some people to start selling stuff. Maybe that's what we lost when we moved - the community. And it seems to be continuing it's slow slide into oblivion. Maybe there's no sense of investment that makes people want to contribute.

A purchase offer was made on SFReader about 2 years ago, right after I switched to the new forum. In retrospect, I wish I'd taken it. I couldn't get a tenth now of what I was offered then.

I'm reminded of a person I knew back in Tucson who ran a small bookstore. There were always people there: reading, writer's groups, RPG clubs, but ultimately the store went out of business. The regulars were stunned. There were always people there, but they didn't BUY in anything. They came in, used the facilities, but didn't give anything back.

Maybe SFReader is like that. People show up, lurk, read the (fewer and fewer) posts, and then go on their way.

If you like SFReader then I offer this challenge: give something back. Write a review of a book or movie, list something for sale or buy something listed, start a discussion about one of the story contest winners, or get some political threads going. Get mad about the war, or about the state of publishing, or about how the Kindle will ruin books for our kids. Ask questions and thanks people when you get an answer. Post some writing fragments, get some feedback. Start a free blog, post to it.

Want a private online writing group? I can set that up.

Some start a Markets thread and take ownership, keep it updated. Start a time to reply thread, keep it updated. List conventions on the3 calendar. Wreite some Con reports when you go to one.

Don't lurk - contribute. There's a lot to do around here. If there's a review up of a book you read, make a comment on it. Send a PM to CrystalWizard and ask for a book to review. Don't just read threads - comment, even if it's only a sentence or two. Get some friends to join.

[Jaqhama]

I would not like to see SFR go under, certainly not after the effort that Dave has put into it.

Therefore...I have made a suggestion for an ebook / kindle section in the "I'd like to see" forum section.

I have been indulging my adventure thriller/SF/monsters/menaces reading taste for the last two weeks and will post up a couple of reviews for the cross genre thrillers novels I have enjoyed the most.

Lot of cross genre novels about right now. Like a Nelson DeMille type thriller with the cop hero tracking down a zombie cell bio-weapon. Unique idea. well written. I'll get back to you all about that.

I'll post more later...off to the Doc's...got a minor chest infection that just won't quit.

Cheers: Jaq.

[Dave]

Kindle and eBook forum created!

http://forums.sfreader.com/forumdisp...dle-and-eBooks

[bdurham]

I poke my head in at least once a day out of loyalty but see little happening. I've tried a couple of threads for recent sales I've made, like to the Lovecraft eZine and the upcoming Heroes in Hell relaunch (Lawyers in Hell), but beyond John Whalen responding and lots of views it feels like a waste of time. As for book reviews, I sent in a review of Gustavo Bondoni's 10th Orbit & Other Far away Places to the revieweditor@sfreader.com address quite a while ago and even followed it up with a post in the SFReader Review Forum. The response for either? Nothing. Doesn't invoke much confidence. I'd hate to see this site drop by the wayside, too, but people need to come out of the woodwork, especially those who run publications in the Book, Magazine, and eZine Publishers forums. Keep current. Let us know what's happening as opposed to using the forum merely as an outlet to promote without getting involved (I'm looking at you ChiZine). Maybe we need another Flashing Swords type publication to bring back those very people who made these forums so successful in the past. Perhaps there should be a culling of forums that have been silent for the past year or so.

[Dave]

I'm with the culling...

[Jaqhama]

I vote yes to the culling as well.

If a book publisher or a magazine, paper or electronic, hasn't made a new post in 12 months then we can assume they've gone under.

[John M. Whalen]

Yes, it is a mystery what happened to the former regular posters on this forum. I guess they moved on or given up writing and if that's their choice, so be it. I won't lose any sleep over anyone who decides to walk away. I agree that the dead forums should be eliminated. They're just taking up space and collecting dust. I like the idea that Jaq has about ebook reviews. (Don't forget, Jaq, Jack Brand is available on Kindle and Nook ). FYI you might check out roguebladesentertainment.com. The site has been revamped and includes a new feature, Home of Heroics, where 26 heroic fantasy writers have begun turning out articles on the subject of heroism and heroics. Some of the more familiar names have been and will be posting articles there, including Bruce Durham, Michael Ehart and later in the spring some opinionated idiot by the name of Whalen. As Bruce said this forum had its hey day in the Howard Jones/Daniel Blackston era. Man, could Daniel start an arument?? But when Howard got to be managing editor of Black Gate he left the forum and seems to have taken a few others along with him, including John Hocking, whose stories are now being published in BG. So perhaps if Janrae and Neve finally get the new Flashing Swords off the ground maybe they can spearhead a revival of interest in this forum. If not them, maybe somebody else ought to start a new publication.

As to the format of this site, it could be that there is just too much being offered and the choices are intimidating people from getting involved. Most people are lurkers, and in the old format, with its simplef design, I think it was more encouraging for the less assertive individuals to start posting.

[Jaqhama]

Hey John

I knew you'd still be here mate.
I know Jack Brand is avaialble as an ebook. I've got a whole list of ebooks to read and review in the future.

A new publication is a great idea, but not just sword and sorcery I think.
Something that does Weird West, cross genre, Swordpunk, Steampunk, Planet Adventure etc would be great.
An ezine...with continuing short serials every week or so....just like Pulp and Dagger .com used to do.
And a continuing serial is a great way to end up with a complete novel. Bit of pressure involved to keep the serial going once started, might be just the spur some writers need to get a whole book written.

[jason]

I agree with the culling. Having forums sitting idle that long gives an overall impression that probably hurts this forum more than a search of those old posts would benefit it. Could be wrong, though. And a new market would be fantastic, especially if it could start off with a bang. If I recall, the original Flashing Swords started off with a short from William King, who I would think had a good following from his Warhammer work.

[Dave]

As far as a new market, are you talking print or electronic? I've considered starting a quarterly SFReader fiction magazine and have mentioned it top a few people, but I don't have time to edit. Most people don't. I could even go half cent a word or some such.

If we want to organize some sort of commmunity effort, I'm all for it. Maybe a solution would be for genre editors to cut down on workload, although too many might do more harm than good.

[Jaqhama]

I reckon we should be looking at an electronic magazine myself.

I like the community effort idea.
I've got some stories that I'm willing to submit for free to help kick things off.
Maybe some others would be willing to do the same?

Linda and I liked the idea of genre editors...means we could read in the genres we prefer.
We'd be happy to edit thriller/military/adventure/steampunk sci-fi stories.
I'd be willing to edit horror SF as well.

Any other takers?

Cheers: Jaq and Lin

[che2000]

I'm up to my eyeballs with various things at the moment but I think the idea of an electronic SF Reader zine is a good one. I'd like to help out if I can though.

[John M. Whalen]

Sure, I'd like to pitch in with an e-mag in some fashion. (Sent from my local McDonald's. My internet is out!)

[H.P. Lovesauce]

Maybe we need a controvertial statement or two just to get folks talking again...

You, sir, are a pusillanimous popinjay!

Oh, and the Resurrection of Christ was a magic trick.

[Dave]

OK

How do we want to do it?

Moderated forum? This would be where anyone can piost, but the post has to be approved by a moderator before it would appear.

Or set up a complete submission/approval process, with a list of the volunteer editors (I'll do cyberpunk/social SF). The editor will have article posting permissions and whnever they had a worhty story, he or she would simply post it up.

Or a quarterly magazine....

I'm open to ideas

[che2000]

A pusillanimous popinjay? Don't you dare call me that again until I have looked it up! [leafing through a dictionary] "Pusillanimous popinjay... a man who is a pusillanimous popinjay"? What kind of book is this?

[John M. Whalen]

Quarterly magazine with a submissions process would be the ideal way to go, if there are enough people willing to do the work. I was Slushmaster (and story doctor at times) at RGR for almost three years. I wouldn't mind editing the space opera, spacewestern, weird western, and even sword and sorcery stuff, provided it wouldn't prohibit me from subbing stories (which is why I left the revamped RayGunRetardo publication---they dont think it's right to publish material from their own editors---despite the fact that nearly every professional publication from Weird Tales and Fantasy and Science Fiction and others have done it. But don't get me on that subject). If this is to be a serious endeavor I do think some form of payment would be required. I never sub to 4theluv. And I don't have money to contribute.

[Jaqhama]

I don't mind supplying a few free stories to Dave because it hasn't cost me anything to read SFR and I've gained a lot of valuable information, enjoyed various reviews and articles and had plenty of good post chats here. Plus I've gotten to make a number of e-friends.
A couple of the tales I'm willing to supply have either been paid for and published before or are ones I wrote when I was in the mood and either never got subbed or got a rejection. As so many magazines have a no reprints policy then I'm not losing anything by letting Dave publish them. The electronic or publishing rights have long run out on them so I can do with them what I wish.
I figure we just need a few good stories to kick the SFR E-mag off.

OK

How do we want to do it?

Moderated forum? This would be where anyone can piost, but the post has to be approved by a moderator before it would appear.

Or set up a complete submission/approval process, with a list of the volunteer editors (I'll do cyberpunk/social SF). The editor will have article posting permissions and whnever they had a worhty story, he or she would simply post it up.

Or a quarterly magazine....

I'm open to ideas

I think we need a submission process.
Standard manuscript sub.
Genre type info a must. Then the sub can be emailed to the right editor.
If a particular editor gets overwhelmed by subs he/she can put a hand up and ask for help to process the subs.

If we stick with an e-mag linked from the SFR homepage I reckon we can make it an on-going affair. People send in their stories. They get proof-read and edited. Accepted. Submitted to the e-mag posting editor for placement in the mag.
Instead of being monthly or quarterly the stories just get added to as time goes by. Stories older than the current ones are archived like on a blog site.
That's how we managed to do so many serials on the old Pulp and Dagger site. I wrote about 5000 words every ten days or so. Sent them off as I finished that episode. We (the writers at P&D) also submitted complete short stories on many occassions. So there was a nice mix of on-going serials and full length stories. Something for everyone.

My thoughts on a quarterly magazine are that readers don't have the patience to wait four months between magazine releases.
Four issues a year is nothing when one considers that people update their blog and story sites on a daily or weekly basis.
Perhaps we could have a donate button linked to Paypal at the end of each writer's story?
If you enjoyed this story please consider making a small donation to Mr X.
Something like that.

Those of us who visit other SFF websites could also make mention of the new SFR e-mag to generate some extra interest. Like I'm happy to mention it on the Brass Goggles Steampunk forum, provided we can manage a few Steampunk tales in the e-mag from time to time. Thousands of members on the BG website.

I do think that potential manuscript submitters must be registered members of SFR and preferably have made at least ten postings previous to subbing a story. This will stop people just dropping by, registering and subbing a story, for that purpose only.
We'll have to decide if we want drop-in visitors to be able to read every story without registering or allow them to read sample stories/chapters and register to read the entire story content.

I think the e-mag should be free to begin with, to garner interest in it, gain a following and to allow people to explore the rest of the SFR website.

Perhaps in the future we could do what Bikernet.com does...Keith, the owner/editor has many sections of Bikernet free to read and then has a special edition section that costs members a small, one off payment, yearly fee.

I guess if the e-mag takes off we can have contests, readers can vote for their fave stories, maybe even request another story by an author featuring the same characters as a story they read and enjoyed. I'm just reeling of ideas as they come to me here. (I had a lot of requests for more Jet Bike and Jack Quick Monster Hunter stories at P&D.)

Maybe we could use Marvel comics as an example...back in the mid-70's they tried their hand with comic book adventures featuring anything and everything.
They had sword and sorcery comics, cyborgs, superheroes, characters like the Punisher, way out SF like Adam Warlock...in short they weren't afraid to try numerous different characters and scenarios. Lots of cross genre stories. What If stories: What if Conan the barbarian was transported to our time? (That was a great one-off story.) Marvel Team Up: Deathlok the Demolisher meets Spider-Man. All sorts of stuff.
An SFR on-going e-mag might be just the thing to allow us writers to really let loose with our weird and wacky ideas. Like I've already written the prelude to a a post apocalyptic story that came to me when I was sitting around one day. Sort of a sword and science / mutants story.

Okay...I'm done for now. Everyone feel free to rip into my ideas, break them down to their individual atoms and re-assemble them into a suitable molecular configuration.

[John M. Whalen]

I don't mind supplying a few free stories to Dave because it hasn't cost me anything to read SFR and I've gained a lot of valuable information, enjoyed various reviews and articles and had plenty of good post chats here. Plus I've gotten to make a number of e-friends.
A couple of the tales I'm willing to supply have either been paid for and published before or are ones I wrote when I was in the mood and either never got subbed or got a rejection. As so many magazines have a no reprints policy then I'm not losing anything by letting Dave publish them. The electronic or publishing rights have long run out on them so I can do with them what I wish.
I figure we just need a few good stories to kick the SFR E-mag off.

That's probably a good idea to get things started.


I think we need a submission process.

Standard manuscript sub.
Genre type info a must. Then the sub can be emailed to the right editor.
If a particular editor gets overwhelmed by subs he/she can put a hand up and ask for help to process the subs.

If we stick with an e-mag linked from the SFR homepage I reckon we can make it an on-going affair. People send in their stories. They get proof-read and edited. Accepted. Submitted to the e-mag posting editor for placement in the mag.
Instead of being monthly or quarterly the stories just get added to as time goes by. Stories older than the current ones are archived like on a blog site.
That's how we managed to do so many serials on the old Pulp and Dagger site. I wrote about 5000 words every ten days or so. Sent them off as I finished that episode. We (the writers at P&D) also submitted complete short stories on many occassions. So there was a nice mix of on-going serials and full length stories. Something for everyone.

My thoughts on a quarterly magazine are that readers don't have the patience to wait four months between magazine releases.
Four issues a year is nothing when one considers that people update their blog and story sites on a daily or weekly basis.
Perhaps we could have a donate button linked to Paypal at the end of each writer's story?
If you enjoyed this story please consider making a small donation to Mr X.
Something like that.

More frequent pubbing is a great idea, but again, that's a heavy work load.

Those of us who visit other SFF websites could also make mention of the new SFR e-mag to generate some extra interest. Like I'm happy to mention it on the Brass Goggles Steampunk forum, provided we can manage a few Steampunk tales in the e-mag from time to time. Thousands of members on the BG website.

I do think that potential manuscript submitters must be registered members of SFR and preferably have made at least ten postings previous to subbing a story. This will stop people just dropping by, registering and subbing a story, for that purpose only.
We'll have to decide if we want drop-in visitors to be able to read every story without registering or allow them to read sample stories/chapters and register to read the entire story content.
I think the e-mag should be free to begin with, to garner interest in it, gain a following and to allow people to explore the rest of the SFR website.

Perhaps in the future we could do what Bikernet.com does...Keith, the owner/editor has many sections of Bikernet free to read and then has a special edition section that costs members a small, one off payment, yearly fee.

I guess if the e-mag takes off we can have contests, readers can vote for their fave stories, maybe even request another story by an author featuring the same characters as a story they read and enjoyed. I'm just reeling of ideas as they come to me here. (I had a lot of requests for more Jet Bike and Jack Quick Monster Hunter stories at P&D.)

Maybe we could use Marvel comics as an example...back in the mid-70's they tried their hand with comic book adventures featuring anything and everything.
They had sword and sorcery comics, cyborgs, superheroes, characters like the Punisher, way out SF like Adam Warlock...in short they weren't afraid to try numerous different characters and scenarios. Lots of cross genre stories. What If stories: What if Conan the barbarian was transported to our time? (That was a great one-off story.) Marvel Team Up: Deathlok the Demolisher meets Spider-Man. All sorts of stuff.
An SFR on-going e-mag might be just the thing to allow us writers to really let loose with our weird and wacky ideas. Like I've already written the prelude to a a post apocalyptic story that came to me when I was sitting around one day. Sort of a sword and science / mutants story.


Okay...I'm done for now. Everyone feel free to rip into my ideas, break them down to their individual atoms and re-assemble them into a suitable molecular configuration.

Here are my thoughts:

It's probably a good idea to donate some stories to get started. There definitely needs to be a submissions process with guidelines. I think it might be better to have the stories sent to one place, rather than individual editors. Editors can dip into a pool of stories. I think you can get a consensus of opinion that way rather than relying on only one editors opinion on whether to publish or not. And it would keep any one editor from getting overwhelmed.

I didn't know you were involved in PandD. I had some stories pubbed there. Didn't they pub new stuff every week? That's a heavy schedule, and a lot of work. I'd love to see something as fresh and exciting as that. It would depend I guess on how many editors are involved. I don't agree with limiting the mag to just SFR members. What's the point of that? Why not anyone who has a good story to sub? Donations are a good idea. Does anyone every actually contribute? Usually its the writers who donate their payment to the mag, unfortunately.

How about a possible print annual, The Best of...