What happened to the regular SFR posters then?

[Dave]

Are people still getting virus alerts?

[Greybeard]

Jordan Lapp got a virus alert a week ago. It's safe to say that if he gets them other people do, too.

[John M. Whalen]

"Jordan Lapp got a virus alert a week ago. It's safe to say that if he gets them other people do, too. "


Have you gotten a virus yourself?

[Jaqhama]

Plenty of websites have virus alerts, it's part and parcel of using the Net. It's why you pay good money for firewall and anti-virus systems.

I've been coming here every day for months and had no alerts at all.
But I have SF Reader bookmarked and never enter via Google, so maybe it's Google that's got the virus as it directs you to the SFR website?

[John M. Whalen]

I'm curious why some people seem to want to scare users away from this forum? My experience is the same as Jaq's. No problem with viruses at all. I don't use google. I've got the site bookmarked.

[Greybeard]

"Jordan Lapp got a virus alert a week ago. It's safe to say that if he gets them other people do, too. "


Have you gotten a virus yourself?

No I haven't. But we aren't discussing viruses, we're discussing virus alerts. Like you, I have the site bookmarked, and have never had a virus alert. I don't think this site has a problem with viruses. But if people are receiving virus alerts then there is a perception that this site is dangerous, and unfortunately perception is more telling than reality in a case like this.

If Google thinks there are viruses here then we have a problem.

If people get virus alerts and think there are viruses here then we have a problem.

[John M. Whalen]

No I haven't. But we aren't discussing viruses, we're discussing virus alerts. Like you, I have the site bookmarked, and have never had a virus alert. I don't think this site has a problem with viruses. But if people are receiving virus alerts then there is a perception that this site is dangerous, and unfortunately perception is more telling than reality in a case like this.


If people get virus alerts and think there are viruses here then we have a problem.

Right. Perception is one thing, reality something else. You may be creating a false perception by stating that if one person got a virus alert than there must be others. If there are, let's hear from them. Let's have facts, not assumptions. See what I'm saying?
If Google thinks there are viruses here then we have a problem.

[Greybeard]

Okay, I'll stay out of the disctussion on virus alerts.

But my post from yesterday didn't kill all activity on this site years ago. There is a problem of some sort that won't be solved by ignoring it. Whether that problem is unwarrented virus alerts or something else, it predates my post.

And before you bother protesting, technically you didn't write that my post was the problem, but you gave me ample reason to infer that that is your opinion.

[John M. Whalen]

I don't think fear of viruses (viri?) is the problem causing "user dropoff." I don't know what it is, but there are a number of possibilities. (a) lack of interest by former users, (b) former users have found another place to participate and aren't telling us, (c) former users are being systematically assassinated, which would make a cool plot for a story. The Case of the Missing Forumites, (d) the shift in the jet stream that has caused so many tornadoes has blown forumites to Oz. It is weird that somebody like Mike Turner, Erasmus, who had thousands of posts, and made the migration from the old site to this one, suddenly disappeared. Here's one possibility. Maybe Dean Wesley Smith is behing it. If you recall shortly after the change over, Nathan Meyer began proselytizing for the blogs written by DWS encouraging everybody to get serious about writing and keep detailed accounts of how many submissions were in circulation. He recommended keeping some kind of complicated scoring system. Quite a few people got very excited about it. Maybe they decided posting here was taking away time from their "Serious" efforts to get published. Maybe they are so busy counting points in the DWS scoring system they don't have time to post here anymore. OR maybe as SOMEBODY said, they've sold a few things, and suddenly feel they have "graduated" and are now just too good to post here any longer. They only want to associate with BIG NAMES now, so its Sayonara SFreader. I don't know. I don't really care. I normally only come on here now to plug a new sale, whereas before I enjoyed the discussions.

[Jaqhama]

To be honest I did pick up some useful info from Dean's site back when Nathan was linking to it.
I warmed to the idea that a book of 100,000 words can be broken down into X amount of words written per week.
I'm quite disiplined, so was able to knock out 5000 words a week on a bad week and ten thousand or more words a week on a good week.
That was how I managed to write two 100,000 word novels in under two years.
I can knock out a thousand plus words in a couple of hours now, no trouble at all.
It was reading Dean's website that got me into the mathmatics side of writing a certain amount.
As for keeping track of where and who you subbed to and when...I only sub to mainstream book publishers now, so keeping track of the subs isn't a huge problem.
Don't worry...if I'm ever mentioned in the same breath as the other greats of modern writing, I'll still be posting here, if the site is still going by the time that happens.

Sf Reader is a dangerous site?

Cool.

"I live for danger!'

[Jordan Lapp]

If you bring up SFReader in google, there are a bunch of sub-headings. Click on "Forums" and you get the virus warning every time. I just checked it today, and I got the same message.

And in response to John's paranoia about scaring away posters, SJHigbee and che2000 both posted that they got virus messages too, so unless it's a massive conspiracy to tank Dave's site, odds are the problem is legit.

[tchernabyelo]

If I try to get to the SFReader forums from Google, it appears that my system just hangs.

I'd love this to be an active discussion site again and attract new people, but when there are departments and threads with "last posts" months and even years ago, it's kind of like walking into a ghost town.

[Greybeard]

If you bring up SFReader in google, there are a bunch of sub-headings. Click on "Forums" and you get the virus warning every time. I just checked it today, and I got the same message.

I just tried it and got the virus warning. Then Firefox crashed.

I return to my original line of thought: whether there are viruses on this site or not, several people that we know have received warnings. If they have, there is no reason to assume that others haven't. If I googled something, clicked on a link and got a virus warning, I would never go back.

Go ahead John, blame that on me.

There is a problem here. It's either a problem with viruses or a problem with unwarrented virus warnings. Either way, cleaning up the problem can't be a bad thing.

[John M. Whalen]

If you bring up SFReader in google, there are a bunch of sub-headings. Click on "Forums" and you get the virus warning every time. I just checked it today, and I got the same message.

And in response to John's paranoia about scaring away posters, SJHigbee and che2000 both posted that they got virus messages too, so unless it's a massive conspiracy to tank Dave's site, odds are the problem is legit.

I think if someone were really trying to help solve the problem they would probably pm the site master privately and alert him to the situation rather than posting a statement for everyone to see that "it's just too dangerous" to come here anymore because of potential viruses. I think that would be a more responsible approach rather than going all "Chicken Little." Besides, Jordan, since you've "graduated" to a level beyond us mere paranoids, and now only want to associate with name authors, I don't know why you still keep coming around here.

I just tried it and got the virus warning. Then Firefox crashed.

I return to my original line of thought: whether there are viruses on this site or not, several people that we know have received warnings. If they have, there is no reason to assume that others haven't. If I googled something, clicked on a link and got a virus warning, I would never go back.

Go ahead John, blame that on me.

There is a problem here. It's either a problem with viruses or a problem with unwarrented virus warnings. Either way, cleaning up the problem can't be a bad thing.

Sounds like the problem is with Google, not this site. Just book mark SFReader and you shouldn't have any problem. Anyway, don't address these issues to me. It's not my website.

[Greybeard]

Sounds like the problem is with Google, not this site. Just book mark SFReader and you shouldn't have any problem. Anyway, don't address these issues to me. It's not my website.

Entirely possible that the problem is with Google, as I have made abundantly clear to anyone willing to read what I've written.

I have bookmarked the site, and use the bookmark to get here all the time.

And I'm addressing you because you're the one who attacked me.

The question is why you are so unwilling to consider the possibility that having virus warnings on Google may negatively affect this site? Are you trying to sabotage the forum?

[John M. Whalen]

Entirely possible that the problem is with Google, as I have made abundantly clear to anyone willing to read what I've written.

I have bookmarked the site, and use the bookmark to get here all the time.

And I'm addressing you because you're the one who attacked me.

The question is why you are so unwilling to consider the possibility that having virus warnings on Google may negatively affect this site? Are you trying to sabotage the forum?

Now who's getting paranoid? I don't recall ever "attacking" you. I merely asked if you ever got a virus alert yourself and followed that up with a request for more clarity to avoid someone misapprehending your statements. That's all. Sorry if you felt attacked.

[tchernabyelo]

Besides, Jordan, since you've "graduated" to a level beyond us mere paranoids, and now only want to associate with name authors, I don't know why you still keep coming around here.

Wow. Nice chip on the shoulder there, John. If we're looking for reasons people don't post here, maybe it's attitudes like that which would lead people to feel unwelcome?

[John M. Whalen]

. SFReader was wonderful for me when I was just starting out, but it doesn't offer much for the journeyman writer.

. . . Writers will always try and associate with better writers than themselves . . . I don't think SFReader can compete with other forums for big name writers, simply because it doesn't currently offer anything of benefit to them.

Also, SFReader is chock full of viruses. I just googled SFReader and clicked on Forums and my anti-virus blocked a trojan. Some weddingphotography URL. Seriously, it's too dangerous to come back on a regular basis..

Just referring to this. They're not my words.

[Jaqhama]

Let's all settle down and have a nice cup of tea.

It's starting to look like Facebook or Twitter in here.

[bdurham]

I have this site bookmarked and never receive a warning. However, I tried to access it through google today and DID receive a warning. It's a variation of the one Jordan posted (I'm using Avast). The culprit appears to be 'vicrtory.net.

I found this (it's talking about another site, but the gist of it probably applies here):

Category: Malicious content, viruses

Site itself is good, but it is currently hacked and distributing malware. The trojan signature changes regularly. Today it is being identified as malicious by only 9/41 products participating in VirusTotal.com, several of which identify it as Zbot (ZeuS). It will download only once to each visitor using a single IP and a single browser. It downloads the first time the visitor clicks a link to one of its pages from Google search results. After that, all subsequent visits show you the original pages at the LA Family History Library, with nothing in the source code that indicates how the malicious download occurred. The downloaded file will be given a name that includes your Google search terms and uses the .com file extension (which is executable and different from the .com TLD). It will download from a subdomain of vicrtorytrip.net such as head5.vicrtorytrip.net.

In my case it was identified as america0.vicrtory.net

[Jordan Lapp]

Just referring to this. They're not my words.

Clever editing, John. Hell of a dirty trick and about as mature as I've come to expect from you. If anyone's curious here's my original post so you can see what I wrote in context.

This is just my opinion based on running EDF for three years.

I don't think starting a web magazine that pays under 1c/word is the answer.

Now, I'm sure the rise of Facebook and Twitter have hurt SFReader, but I believe there are other factors in play. The reason I left SFReader is simply that after winning Writers of the Future and attending Clarion West, opportunities arose where I could interact with professional, established writers on relatively private forums or newsgroups. I'm pretty sure that could be said of Brian Dolton and a few others also. SFReader was wonderful for me when I was just starting out, but it doesn't offer much for the journeyman writer.

You have to decide what "niche" you're targeting. If it's newbie writers, then there will always be some loss at the top as writers "graduate" and move elsewhere.

If you're targeting all writers in general, then have you to offer something of value that they can't get elsewhere. Big name editors have to frequent the forum, or there has to be a pro-mag attached to it, or it has to have a writing group with big name writers in it. Writers will always try and associate with better writers than themselves and thus if you get big name writers to post on your forum, you'll get everyone else too.

I don't think SFReader can compete with other forums for big name writers, simply because it doesn't currently offer anything of benefit to them. What SFReader CAN do, and did well in the past in my opinion, is offer a place for semi-pro magazine staff to get together and discuss strategy, pool their resources, use forum tools to promote their magazines, ...etc. To that end, SFReader should target EDITORS of small press magazines... get THEM to frequent this forum. If you do that, writers will come. And for sure you'll still have some "bleed" at the top as writer graduate to the SFWA forums or private lists, but you'll always have an influx of new writers.

So, instead of starting a magazine that might be read by very few people, perhaps contact more small press editors. Offer to "white-label" SFReader so they can offer a "Forums" tab on their websites that brings readers to their forum here. Offer to let them run ads for free on SFReader if their site brings a certain amount of traffic here...etc, etc.

Just a few thoughts....

Also, SFReader is chock full of viruses. I just googled SFReader and clicked on Forums and my anti-virus blocked a trojan. Some weddingphotography URL. Seriously, it's too dangerous to come back on a regular basis..

In any case, this is a prime reason why I left the forum. It seems that the loudest voices are the ones with the least to say (with the exception of most of the people on this thread). I've heard from several other authors who've left SFReader that that's a primary reason they go. Personally, I've just netted some pretty large contracts (writing under a pen name) and I feel like I have a lot to contribute here, not to mention the ability to pay it forward a little bit, but damned if I'm going to put up with flat out abuse.

As for the virus, it looks like Bruce has spotted the problem. Dave can probably chase it down now that he's armed with that knowledge. As for why it wasn't PM'd, I originally brought up the problem a year or so ago (?) but it was still happening when I returned. From Bruce's message, it seems the trojan was so cleverly constructed that it took four or five of us to figure it out. Never would have happened in PMs.

[John M. Whalen]

Great job, Bruce. Nice detective work. You took a saner approach and found a solution. That's all it takes. A cool head.

I didn't want to embarrass you, Jordan by quoting the entire post, which is actually worse than the edited version. Should get the the award for Most Pompous Posting of the Year.

[Jordan Lapp]

John, you obviously have an axe to grind with me, and I'm sure you have your reasons for doing so, but calling a writer who's had some small amount of success pompous when he's trying to help makes you look petty and jealous.

I don't feel like I should have to defend what I said, especially since I meant well and offered constructive solutions, but here's the quote that you pulled again:

. SFReader was wonderful for me when I was just starting out, but it doesn't offer much for the journeyman writer.

Earlier in this paragraph I noted that there are very few, if any editors who pay professional rates on this forum, nor are there many professional, established writers here (the more unsavory elements of the forum having chased them away). Notice that comma between "professional" and "established"? SFReader hosts writers who have professional sales but aren't really "established" in the sense that they have multiple novels with a Big Six Publisher. I don't count myself in that bracket, which is why I used the term "journeyman". SFReader hosts writers who I consider to be at least as good, if not better than myself, but the SFWA forums host more.

. . . Writers will always try and associate with better writers than themselves . . . I don't think SFReader can compete with other forums for big name writers, simply because it doesn't currently offer anything of benefit to them.

The first part of the quote should be self-evident, and doesn't strike me as pompous at all. This is standard advice many pros give to newbies: "Hang out with better writers than yourselves".

As for the second part, SFReader can't compete with the SFWA forums for posters who are writers because people pay money to get on the SFWA forums and it's more "exclusive". SFReader also has difficulty competing with forums run by major magazines because new writers hope to get "discovered" there, and older writers talk about the stories they've published in that magazine. SFReader, while a great forum, has reviews as its main draw, something that's appealing to readers, not writers (hence the "doesn't offer anything of benefit to them" part of the quote), and therefore finds it difficult to compete for posters who are also writers.

Also, SFReader is chock full of viruses. I just googled SFReader and clicked on Forums and my anti-virus blocked a trojan. Some weddingphotography URL. Seriously, it's too dangerous to come back on a regular basis..

This was established.

[John M. Whalen]

Hey, Jordan. Buddy, nice to have you back on the forum after so long an absence. Don't stay away so long next time. May the Good Lord Take a liking to you. I'll forget you said I was petty, jealous and paranoid (and was unsavory meant for me to?). I 'm not envious of your success, because I didn't know you were having any. I haven't seen anything of yours anywhere. But I am delighted to hear that you are doing so well. I really am. I recall reading the story you sent to Ray Run Revival when I was slushing over there and I remarked: "That boy's got potential!" Glad it's working out. Happy Trails.

[Jordan Lapp]

I've been writing under a pen name. Can you believe that "Lapp" was constantly being butchered? I was getting Latt, Lapp, Capp, Capt, Lapt(?), you name it.